Highland Mainline upgrade ideas

[najaB]

The current set of loops and their locations were fine for the level of service for the Victorian railway but they aren't fit for today's railway.

Well, you've rather shot your 'Whoever coined that phrase must have been joking.' argument there, given when it was named.

The ScotGov's aspiration for a half hourly service plus freight paths is going to need more and longer loops to make it work.

Is the aspiration an half-hourly or an hourly service? That would represent a massive increase in capacity.

 

[gingertom]

Well, you've rather shot your 'Whoever coined that phrase must have been joking.' argument there, given when it was named.
Is the aspiration an half-hourly or an hourly service? That would represent a massive increase in capacity.

Aspiration is hourly Glasgow, hourly Edinburgh.

 

[najaB]

Aspiration is hourly Glasgow, hourly Edinburgh.

I thought that was on alternate hours though?

 

[gingertom]

I thought that was on alternate hours though?

that's what it is at the moment, more or less, give or take.

 

[Clansman]

I thought that was on alternate hours though?

IIRC it's hourly to Perth, then to Glasgow and Edinburgh on alternate hours.

 

[gingertom]

IIRC it's hourly to Perth, then to Glasgow and Edinburgh on alternate hours.

hope I haven't read it wrong but i was pretty certain the long term aim was to have an hourly service to Glasgow, hourly service to Edinburgh, amounting to a half hourly service between Inverness and Perth. Finding paths for all these, the return workings and freight too would require some serious interventions ie more doubling.

 

[najaB]

hope I haven't read it wrong but i was pretty certain the long term aim was to have an hourly service to Glasgow, hourly service to Edinburgh, amounting to a half hourly service between Inverness and Perth.

I've read it as hourly Inverness-Perth and a (nearly) 50:50 split between Perth-Glasgow and Perth-Edinburgh.

Finding paths for all these, the return workings and freight too would require some serious interventions ie more doubling.

It would represent more than doubling the amount of traffic, so yes it would!

 

[mcmad]

Shame that, with the HST introduction, the facility to split and join at Perth has been lost otherwise the opportunity to have an hourly service to both Edinburgh and Glasgow would have been achievable at a realistic cost.

 

[gingertom]

Shame that, with the HST introduction, the facility to split and join at Perth has been lost otherwise the opportunity to have an hourly service to both Edinburgh and Glasgow would have been achievable at a realistic cost.

platform lengths north of Perth make that difficult in some locations.

 

[najaB]

Shame that, with the HST introduction, the facility to split and join at Perth has been lost otherwise the opportunity to have an hourly service to both Edinburgh and Glasgow would have been achievable at a realistic cost.

If the timetable is closer to clock-face then the connection at Perth for the 'off' hour train should normally be under 10 minutes (which is fine as long as the HML isn't disrupted).

 

[Indigo Soup]

Highland Main Line is poorly named. It is predominantly single track with a few passing places. "Main Line"? Whoever coined that phrase must have been joking.
We agree it needs wires. We agree it needs double tracking. We disagree on the extent of that double tracking.

It's so named because it was the main line of the Highland Railway, not because anyone has delusions of it being comparable to the West Coast Main Line.

The hourly service plus four daily freight paths (the aspiration 10 years ago at least) needs reinstating crossing loops at Ballinluig and Newtonmore along with redoubling from Culloden to Daviot. Unfortunately the new A9 junction at Ballinluig has been built over the original formation for the loop.

 

[Clansman]

hope I haven't read it wrong but i was pretty certain the long term aim was to have an hourly service to Glasgow, hourly service to Edinburgh, amounting to a half hourly service between Inverness and Perth. Finding paths for all these, the return workings and freight too would require some serious interventions ie more doubling.

Not heard of this service pattern. The only thing I can come up with is that you're possibly mistaking your perception of a half hourly service from Inverness to Edinburgh/Glasgow as all being down the HML, when in actual fact services via Aberdeen to these destinations will also increase.

 

[Altnabreac]

hope I haven't read it wrong but i was pretty certain the long term aim was to have an hourly service to Glasgow, hourly service to Edinburgh, amounting to a half hourly service between Inverness and Perth. Finding paths for all these, the return workings and freight too would require some serious interventions ie more doubling.

Not heard of this service pattern. The only thing I can come up with is that you're possibly mistaking your perception of a half hourly service from Inverness to Edinburgh/Glasgow as all being down the HML, when in actual fact services via Aberdeen to these destinations will also increase.

I’m afraid you’ve definitely read it wrong. You can go and look at the Scotland Route Study which has some extremely ambitious frequencies in the 2043 future indicative timetable and it still only proposes an hourly Perth - Inverness clockface timetable with occasional extra services (presumably having the Chieftain as an extra service rather than part of the hourly timetable).

See page 63:
https://cdn.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Scotland-Route-Study-Appendices.pdf

 

[InOban]

It's so named because it was the main line of the Highland Railway, not because anyone has delusions of it being comparable to the West Coast Main Line.

The hourly service plus four daily freight paths (the aspiration 10 years ago at least) needs reinstating crossing loops at Ballinluig and Newtonmore along with redoubling from Culloden to Daviot. Unfortunately the new A9 junction at Ballinluig has been built over the original formation for the loop.

But I think that the space underneath the A9 junction has been left wide enough for two tracks, but I may be wrong.

 

[najaB]

But I think that the space underneath the A9 junction has been left wide enough for two tracks, but I may be wrong.

I think you're right - it's certainly wider than it needs to be for a single track. In the worst case, the loop could be relocated a hundred metres or so further south.

 

[Highland37]

John Finnie (Green) also had a video today on the subject.

 

[Highland37]

I would suggest, doubling, W12 gauge and electrification. And me winning the lottery.

 

[Altnabreac]

It wouldn’t benefit me as a Glasgow based traveller but it seems to me it would be better to invest in new line on the Inverkeithing - Bridge of Earn section to bring Inverness - Edinburgh journey times down significantly than to spend a lot of money on very marginal time gains between Inverness and Perth.

 

[InOban]

I think that the time gains would be significant because trains have to wait in the loops for each other, and this would become worse if they tried to increase the frequency.

But I agree that increasing the speed and capacity through Fife is also essential.

 

[mcmad]

Suspect that line speed increases and dynamic loops on the existing line via Ladybank will be tried before any large scale new construction via Glenfarg

 

[deltic08]

AFAIK the major section once double, now single, is from the south end of Culloden viaduct to Daviot. The problem is not the limited amount of double track, it's that it's concentrated into three sections - one long ( Blair Atholl to Dalwhinnie) and two shorter (Inverness to Culloden and Perth to Stanley Junction). One would have to create a possible timetable to decide where dynamic loops could be most effectively located.

I think you meant to say north end of Culloden viaduct to Daviot. Doubling would allow HSTs to achieve their maximum speed on the climb out of Inverness without having to brake for the junction with the single line section and then accelerate on a rising gradient again to Daviot. Double to the end of the 1 in 60 near Moy. Findhorn viaduct, I think, is too narrow for double track all the way from Inverness to Slochd Summit.

 

[gingertom]

Suspect that line speed increases and dynamic loops on the existing line via Ladybank will be tried before any large scale new construction via Glenfarg

According to Wiki Ladybank-Hilton jn was singled in the 60s, so there is scope for redoubling part or all of the route.

 

[Indigo Soup]

According to Wiki Ladybank-Hilton jn was singled in the 60s, so there is scope for redoubling part or all of the route.

I don't think Ladybank to Hilton is particularly capacity limited; the real gains would be from increasing line speed.

 

[InOban]

To accommodate both express trains and local trains calling at reopened stations such as Newburgh would require more than just increasing the linespeed.

 

[smtglasgow]

Realistically, what can be done beyond the current works within the sort of budgets likely to be available? I’m sure we’d all like to see A9 levels of investment, but that’s highly unlikely, so what can be done, say within the next decade, to increase capacity, boost reliability and reduce journey times?

Tourism looks like it will continue to grow, so even if Highlanders end up using the improved A9 in greater numbers, the HML will still need to boost capacity. Earlier arrivals at both ends must still be a priority – if you need to be in Inverness for 9.30/10 in the morning the car is still the only option from the central belt.

 

[railjock]

Do more people travel to/from Inverness from/to Edinburgh or Glasgow?

 

[Indigo Soup]

Do more people travel to/from Inverness from/to Edinburgh or Glasgow?

My feeling is that most traffic originating around Inverness is heading towards Glasgow, but most traffic with a destination towards Inverness originates at Edinburgh or points south.

 

[InOban]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http...HCasQFggLMAA&usg=AOvVaw3aFid5hpRCq43BZl9JM8Fo

In case that link doesn't work, the answer is that traffic to Edinburgh is nearly 50% higher than traffic to Glasgow. It may be that that is biased by summer tourist flows, but in general all routes which serve both Edinburgh and Glasgow, whether by train or plane, will have much more traffic to Edinburgh.

 

[47421]

195,081 annual journeys Inverness to Edinburgh, 146,306 to Glasgow. A significant 33% more, but way off nearly 50%

 

[InOban]

OK. Couldn't be bothered opening the calculator app!. It's higher from some intermediate stations. I'm sure you enjoyed poring over the data.