Historic 24-hour services

[AY1975]

Following on from this thread from earlier this year about potential 24-hour services in London at 24-Hour London Services | RailUK Forums (railforums.co.uk) and this one on early morning trains serving airports at Rail connections should cater for early airline flights | RailUK Forums (railforums.co.uk) are there many routes that used to have 24-hour services (even if only a limited service in the early hours of the morning) where no such service exists today?

This can included conventional passenger services or trains that were primarily non-passenger (e.g. mail, milk, newspaper or parcels trains) with limited passenger accommodation, whether they were shown in the public timetable or just advertised locally (or even not publicly advertised at all).

For example, I believe that there was a limited overnight service on the Kingston Loop until about the mid 1980s (probably killed off by the move of a lot of newspapers away from Fleet Street) and a number of overnight newspaper trains from Waterloo (and indeed on many other routes throughout the country).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Manchester Airport to Blackpool used to have an 01xx and 03xx both ways but hasn't for a while, though it had some odd pick up/set down only restrictions on it, e.g. set down only at Preston despite there potentially being demand (and no doubt unofficial users) from there to Blackpool.

There used to be an 0300ish Liverpool to Manchester but no longer appears to be one. The service that formed it, the approximately-midnight Manchester-Liverpool all stations, still exists, but seems to then go out of service instead of working back.

I'm almost certain someone told me the south WCML used to have a 24 hour local service which was later pared back to the present 0130ish being the last one north and midnight ish south, but I don't know if that's actually true or not.

 

[Gloster]

I am not sure about the Kingston Loop, but I think there were roundabouts from Holborn Viaduct via Wimbledon and Sutton in the early hours for newspaper workers. I am not sure when these finished or whether they were unadvertised.

 

[75A]

There used to be a train an hour throughout the night between Brighton, Gatwick & Victoria (London Bridge), which was jolly useful if you'd been to a midweek football match 'oop norf'

 

[midland1]

There used to be a train an hour throughout the night between Brighton, Gatwick & Victoria (London Bridge), which was jolly useful if you'd been to a midweek football match 'oop norf'

There still is an hourly night service Bedford - London with some going on to Three Bridges or Brighton.

 

[Magdalia]

The GN inner suburban to Welwyn Garden City and Hertford North had an hourly all night service from electrification until May 1986.

 

[Roger1973]

For example, I believe that there was a limited overnight service on the Kingston Loop until about the mid 1980s (probably killed off by the move of a lot of newspapers away from Fleet Street) and a number of overnight newspaper trains from Waterloo (and indeed on many other routes throughout the country).

From winter 1972 Southern Region public timetable -

0130 and 0348 Waterloo - Wimbledon - Kingston - Twickenham - Waterloo (arr 0244 and 0502)
0135 and 0325 Waterloo - Twickenham - Kingston - Wimbledon - Waterloo (arr 0255 and 0439)

0006 and hourly to 0506 Victoria - Gatwick Airport and vice versa (calling at East Croydon both ways, up but not down trains listed as calling at Clapham Junction)

These were arguably the only true 'all night' services but there were other on-off trains (I'm counting anything that was out between 0100 and 0400) including -

2237 Weymouth - Waterloo (arrive 0336)

2252 Waterloo - Weymouth (arrive 0332)

0102 Holborn Viaduct - London Bridge - Orpington (via Bromley North and back to Grove Park)

0135 Eastleigh - Portsmouth + Southsea

0140 Waterloo - Salisbury - Yeovil Junction

0245 Waterloo - Eastleigh - Bournemouth / Portsmouth Harbour (appears to divide at Eastleigh)

0300 Victoria - Rochester - Margate - Ramsgate

0320 Victoria - Brighton

0327 Victoria - Eastbourne

0330 Victoria - Sevenoaks - Tonbridge - Ashford - Folkestone

It's possible I may have missed something, and the above are Mon - Fri times (some were different on Monday mornings)

Some of the longer distance trains are marked as 'second class only' implying a few loco hauled coaches along with parcels or newspaper vans.

No mention of anything on the Holborn Viaduct - Wimbledon / Sutton lines in this timetable.

I believe there may have been more night trains towards Orpington at one time - a friend who's a bit older than me says that his family moved from Orpington to Benfleet at one stage, his father had been in a 'Fleet Street' editorial role, and the night train service to Orpington was reduced. This in turn implies that there was some sort of night service on the Fenchurch Street lines at some point.

I can remember London Buses issuing some 'buses for night owls' booklets in the early to mid 80s, once they realised the night bus network might be worth letting people (other than the people who already knew about it) know it existed, and some included overnight (or very late / early) train services - I remember the Kingston 'roundabout' services appearing in at least some editions, but can't say for sure when it ended.

In terms of places north of the Thames, I have an idea there may have been some night trains round Manchester, and on the Newcastle / Tyneside lines that got turned in to the Metro, but I don't have anything to hand that gives detail.

The operating day on many suburban lines was quite long, last down train leaving terminus close to 0100, and first arrival around 0500. It's also possible there were staff / 'not advertised' trains later and earlier - I only have a public timetable to hand.

There was also the 'Inter Station Bus Service' (more on London Bus Route Histories website here) which I understand was originally operated under contract to the railway companies (it started in the 1930s - a private company ran it before London Transport took it on in 1936) so is only a slight tangent to this thread - it ran in that form until 1985, and from what I'm aware, it did not use the standard LT buses fares structure (I don't know if any forms of rail ticket were valid on it.) One of the core markets for it (hence latterly operating Sunday night only) was service personnel travelling back to base after weekend leave.

 

[Magdalia]

0136 Kings Cross-Peterborough and 0325 Peterborough-Kings Cross or near equivalents have run since electrification.

 

[30907]

The night trains from Holborn/Blackfriars ran till the mid 60s, with a connection at Herne Hill for Sutton (or St Helier?) via Wimbledon. Any balancing workings were ECS.

The handful of late-night suburban services survived longer, but that usually meant one departure between 0015-0100.

Paddington-Reading ran through the night at some stage, but I don't recall the details, as did the GN inner suburbans.

 

[Springs Branch]

The night trains from Holborn/Blackfriars ran till the mid 60s, with a connection at Herne Hill for Sutton (or St Helier?) via Wimbledon. Any balancing workings were ECS.

I once read that a significant factor in the 1960s demise of those early hours 'Press Trains' from Holborn Viaduct & Blackfriars was that Fleet Street print workers back then were on such generous wages that many were able to afford their own cars (much higher proportion than regular 'working men' in those days).

Plus - with their hours of work and the general state of much of London at the time - there was no problem finding free, unrestricted on-street parking in the vicinity of Fleet Street after normal business hours. (Even if no spots on the street, there was probably a vacant, undeveloped WW2 bomb site close to hand)

In terms of places north of the Thames, I have an idea there may have been some night trains round Manchester, and on the Newcastle / Tyneside lines that got turned in to the Metro, but I don't have anything to hand that gives detail.

One line that had regular, hourly all-night DMUs back in the day was Guide Bridge - Denton - Stockport. Well, you'd expect that, wouldn't you!

In fact, these were officially staff trains running Manchester Picc - Stockport - Guide Bridge (but not all the way to Stalybridge). Request stops were available at Reddish South & Denton, plus at Longsight Staff Halt.

Other ~hourly all-night staff trains in Manchester were formed of 1500V EMUs (Class 506) between Piccadilly, Guide Bridge, Godley Jn & Mottram Yard Staff Halt. I'm not 100% sure, but I think these connected with the DMU to/from Stockport at Guide Bridge.

Look for reporting numbers 2H50 and 2H82 in the attached scan of a 1972-vintage WTT for the Piccadilly area . . .

 

[Carbean]

Oxford still has a 0355 train to Reading, got it a couple of times from Didcot at 0410. Station deserted except for one duty man who was surprised to see us and we were only passengers on train. To be honest cannot see point of running it, although useful for getting to Heathrow/Gatwick to catch an early flight

 

[CarrotPie]

Oxford still has a 0355 train to Reading, got it a couple of times from Didcot at 0410. Station deserted except for one duty man who was surprised to see us and we were only passengers on train. To be honest cannot see point of running it, although useful for getting to Heathrow/Gatwick to catch an early flight

Is there a corresponding early North Downs Iine service off of Reading though?

 

[JonathanH]

Is there a corresponding early North Downs Iine service off of Reading though?

There is an 0432 from Reading which connects out of the Night Riviera sleeper. However, the connection from Oxford isn't made at Reading any more as the 0355 stops at the stations between Didcot and Reading.

Strangely, the 0355 from Oxford arrives in Reading at 0438, missing a 0432 to Gatwick, and a 0435 to Paddington.

 

[CarrotPie]

Strangely, the 0355 from Oxford arrives in Reading at 0438, missing a 0432 to Gatwick, and a 0435 to Paddington.

Sounds like usual UK connectivity to me

 

[Carbean]

Think the 0355 could be retimed easily attached tie of morning. It sits at Reading for about 30 mins then forms a service to Maidenhead which then goes onto the Marlow line.

 

[billh]

One line that had regular, hourly all-night DMUs back in the day was Guide Bridge - Denton - Stockport. Well, you'd expect that, wouldn't you!

In fact, these were officially staff trains running Manchester Picc - Stockport - Guide Bridge (but not all the way to Stalybridge). Request stops were available at Reddish South & Denton, plus at Longsight Staff Halt.

Other ~hourly all-night staff trains in Manchester were formed of 1500V EMUs (Class 506) between Piccadilly, Guide Bridge, Godley Jn & Mottram Yard Staff Halt. I'm not 100% sure, but I think these connected with the DMU to/from Stockport at Guide Bridge.

Look for reporting numbers 2H50 and 2H82 in the attached scan of a 1972-vintage WTT for the Piccadilly area . . .
View attachment 148483

The Manchester staff trains were still in the 1990s WTT long after Mottram Yard had closed.The lighting at the Halt was maintained in working order also. I assumed this was for staff living the area with some sort of union(?) agreement until such staff retired/resigned. Guide Bridge was an important 24hour signing on point for years after Woodhead closed.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Pretty sure the GER Jazz Service ran all night to Walthamstow.

In the early days of the class 321's a full all night service ran to Milton Keynes , hourly - it did not last long as many trains were empty or very lightly loaded - leaving the service we now have. (very late from London , and very early up from MK around 0330 for workers largely)

 

[robert thomas]

Fishguard Harbour used to have a regular interval 24hour HST service to Paddington with departures at 01.50 and 13.50

 

[JonathanH]

In the early days of the class 321's a full all night service ran to Milton Keynes , hourly - it did not last long as many trains were empty or very lightly loaded - leaving the service we now have. (very late from London , and very early up from MK around 0330 for workers largely)

Looking at the 1991 timetable shows a 0015 Birmingham New Street to London Euston train on a Saturday Night / Sunday morning, arriving at 0247, returning at 0354 to Bletchley.

The other nights, as you say, alternate Euston to Northampton and Milton Keynes services departing at 0034, and hourly, from Euston.

The current 0034, 0134, 0534 pattern seems to have been in place for around 30 years.

 

[Howardh]

Manchester Airport to Blackpool used to have an 01xx and 03xx both ways but hasn't for a while, though it had some odd pick up/set down only restrictions on it, e.g. set down only at Preston despite there potentially being demand (and no doubt unofficial users) from there to Blackpool.

There used to be an 0300ish Liverpool to Manchester but no longer appears to be one. The service that formed it, the approximately-midnight Manchester-Liverpool all stations, still exists, but seems to then go out of service instead of working back.

I'm almost certain someone told me the south WCML used to have a 24 hour local service which was later pared back to the present 0130ish being the last one north and midnight ish south, but I don't know if that's actually true or not.

In the 90's and possible early 2000's there was a night service from the Airport to Piccadilly and beyond (Bolton/Preston/Blackpool) think the departure time from Piccadilly was 0135 and did not allow pax to be picked up at Piccadilly. Night owls found a way round that, get the inward train to the Airport and stay on it, using the Ranger ticket!

Think the TOC finally saw sense and allow pax to join at Piccadilly. Pity there's no such train now, last train to Bolton from Manchester is 0009 as per timetable (rather than as per reality). Last bus is 2359. Our links, transport wise, wouldn't be accepted if we were a town on the outskirts of London.

That aside, it also means that any late-night flights into Manchester airport if they at risk of arriving late have to be avoided unless one is prepared to pay for a taxi.

 

[JonathanH]

Our links, transport wise, wouldn't be accepted if we were a town on the outskirts of London.

Not all stations on the outskirts of London get a service that late. Some do, some don't.

 

[Magdalia]

Pretty sure the GER Jazz Service ran all night to Walthamstow.

Yes, but only briefly between electrification in 1960 and 1965. The trains ran to/from Chingford.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Yes, but only briefly between electrification in 1960 and 1965. The trains ran to/from Chingford.

Steam days surely ? - hence the expression "there ain't no last train to Walthamstow" - quoted by the excellent author Alan A Jackson - I suspect the GER Society may know if true or not.

On my old patch - there were a handful of late night passenger services down the Watford DC , as was (off topic) - a Watford / Harrow / Euston DC mail. The latter was reversed by handsignal via the Harrow DC reversing siding to access wrong road the down DC to get into the road accessible down platform and load up with mail bags for circulation via Euston etc.

 

[30907]

Steam days surely ? - hence the expression "there ain't no last train to Walthamstow" - quoted by the excellent author Alan A Jackson - I suspect the GER Society may know if true or not.

12.45am-1.58am-4.38am Chingford in 1958 (steam), became hourly xx36 by 1963 (electric).

 

[Guano]

North Tyneside:- three services were introduced in 1974 at 0115, 0225 and 0425 (six nights per week) Newcastle - Wallsend - Coast - Benton - Newcastle. There were special (higher) fares paid on the train (while all stations were staffed during the day and tickets had to be bought at the station). They lasted until closure for Metro conversion. Metro never had a night service.

 

[eldomtom2]

12.45am-1.58am-4.38am Chingford in 1958 (steam), became hourly xx36 by 1963 (electric).

It was 24-hour back in 1939, though. And still 24-hour arguably in 1949, though with a large gap between the 2am and 4:37am trains.

 

[thedbdiboy]

Pretty sure the GER Jazz Service ran all night to Walthamstow.

In the early days of the class 321's a full all night service ran to Milton Keynes , hourly - it did not last long as many trains were empty or very lightly loaded - leaving the service we now have. (very late from London , and very early up from MK around 0330 for workers largely)

Yes, if I missed the last DC I could get an MKC train and walk home to Hatch End from Harrow. I remember turning up for the 0130 one day in the late 80s to be told it was cancelled - no guard. I nipped down to the platform to find the driver about to take the 321 to MKC empty stock DOO, flashed my staff pass and asked if their was any chance of a 'lift' to Harrow. 'Hop in' he said. We were routed on the down fast and I mentioned that I actually lived in Hatch End...which at that time still has an intact down fast platform face. He paused briefly there instead and I nipped off, by my reckoning the very last person ever to use that platform...

 

[75A]

Yes, if I missed the last DC I could get an MKC train and walk home to Hatch End from Harrow. I remember turning up for the 0130 one day in the late 80s to be told it was cancelled - no guard. I nipped down to the platform to find the driver about to take the 321 to MKC empty stock DOO, flashed my staff pass and asked if their was any chance of a 'lift' to Harrow. 'Hop in' he said. We were routed on the down fast and I mentioned that I actually lived in Hatch End...which at that time still has an intact down fast platform face. He paused briefly there instead and I nipped off, by my reckoning the very last person ever to use that platform...

Helping colleagues was still happeng in the 80's, I often hitched a ride to my home station of Lancing on the Brighton -Worthing paper train.

 

[Topological]

In the 90's and possible early 2000's there was a night service from the Airport to Piccadilly and beyond (Bolton/Preston/Blackpool) think the departure time from Piccadilly was 0135 and did not allow pax to be picked up at Piccadilly. Night owls found a way round that, get the inward train to the Airport and stay on it, using the Ranger ticket!

Think the TOC finally saw sense and allow pax to join at Piccadilly. Pity there's no such train now, last train to Bolton from Manchester is 0009 as per timetable (rather than as per reality). Last bus is 2359. Our links, transport wise, wouldn't be accepted if we were a town on the outskirts of London.

That aside, it also means that any late-night flights into Manchester airport if they at risk of arriving late have to be avoided unless one is prepared to pay for a taxi.

Manchester used to do very well with trains from Liverpool, Sheffield, Leeds and Preston all running about every 2 hours through the night. I always found it strange that Liverpool was the worst of the set for timings.

It all seemed to slow down through the 2000's though and by the time I stopped wanting the trains most of the routes had big gaps in the schedules before 05:00. The late trains were brilliant for getting back to Manchester and worst case it just meant a journey to the airport and a bus back.

To be fair numbers were not great on those services, but they were not exactly empty whenever I used them.

In Swansea we still have the remnants of the 01:50 Fishguard train mentioned up thread as the 03:46 to Paddington, that is a welcome train to keep.

 

[Taunton]

There is an even more select group of night services which once operated only at such times, generally on otherwise freight-only lines.

The North London Line eastwards to Bow lost its mainstream passenger service with WW2, but a train continued at 4am from Devons Road to Broad Street, returning at 4.50am. This went well into the diesel era, when it was hauled by one of the pioneers we now know as Class 20. Of course, it was primarily for railway staff, coming for the first shift when there were no buses, but also got used by dockers etc.