• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Holyhead electrification

Status
Not open for further replies.

Class15

On Moderation
Joined
30 Dec 2021
Messages
1,436
Location
The North London Line
The Welsh want to electrify Chester-Holyhead by 2029 apparently.

Why does this not continue to Crewe? Why would they leave a short section out?

Any help is much appreciated.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Hadders

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
13,217
I'd have thought there's no chance of electricfication to Holyhead happening by the end of the decade.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,396
Location
Bolton
It’s in Modern Railways April
The article does not suggest that Chester - Crewe wouldn't be electrified by then. It's silent on the matter, unsurprisingly given it's commenting on something specific elsewhere.

It would have helped a lot if you could have provided a few lines of quote.

Unless more rail infrastructure is devolved to Wales, electrification remains unlikely.
 

Class15

On Moderation
Joined
30 Dec 2021
Messages
1,436
Location
The North London Line
The article does not suggest that Chester - Crewe wouldn't be electrified by then. It's silent on the matter, unsurprisingly given it's commenting on something specific elsewhere.

It would have helped a lot if you could have provided a few lines of quote.
I know, and it shows how much more capable the Welsh government is of doing things, unlike the UK government which does nothing.
 

cle

Established Member
Joined
17 Nov 2010
Messages
4,033
There isn't a huge use without it getting to Crewe, and bi-modes are on the way for the Londons.

Arguably you could wire to Runcorn, or up to WBQ and have electric trains to Liverpool and Manchester. Why not all! But I think the route to Crewe is implicit.
 

Class15

On Moderation
Joined
30 Dec 2021
Messages
1,436
Location
The North London Line
There isn't a huge use without it getting to Crewe, and bi-modes are on the way for the Londons.

Arguably you could wire to Runcorn, or up to WBQ and have electric trains to Liverpool and Manchester. Why not all! But I think the route to Crewe is implicit.
Yes, but we all know what the DfT can do...
 

Richard Scott

Established Member
Joined
13 Dec 2018
Messages
3,696
I know, and it shows how much more capable the Welsh government is of doing things, unlike the UK government which does nothing.
No it shows they have dreams of spending other people's money. Where is the money coming from? Not as if Wales is flush with it at the moment.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,396
Location
Bolton
Yes, but we all know what the DfT can do...
It would require the central government to support further devolution, which will probably need to go through Parliament, to get anywhere. At the moment only the core valley lines are under direct control. Railway infrastructure is under the control of the Northern Ireland Executive and Scottish Government respectively however.
 

Peter Mugridge

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Apr 2010
Messages
14,835
Location
Epsom
The Welsh want to electrify Chester-Holyhead by 2029 apparently.

Why does this not continue to Crewe? Why would they leave a short section out?
Assuming this is indeed a plan ( the fact that it's in the April issue might ring a few alarm bells? ), is it not the case that the Welsh Government only have jurisdiction over the bit west from Chester while the bit east from Chester comes under the DfT at Westminster...? It would be no surprise at all if politics was a reason for leaving a short gap like that.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,396
Location
Bolton
Assuming this is indeed a plan ( the fact that it's in the April issue might ring a few alarm bells? ), is it not the case that the Welsh Government only have jurisdiction over the bit west from Chester while the bit east from Chester comes under the DfT at Westminster...? It would be no surprise at all if politics was a reason for leaving a short gap like that.
The Welsh Government does not have direct control over any of the railway infrastructure in North Wales.
 

cle

Established Member
Joined
17 Nov 2010
Messages
4,033
Perhaps they are assuming a change in government, and ensuing friendliness towards the regions/devolution? Not that it has really benefitted Labour!

No it shows they have dreams of spending other people's money. Where is the money coming from? Not as if Wales is flush with it at the moment.
If only 39bn of 'other people's money' had not been wasted on corruption and inefficiency. Would buy a lot more infrastructure including this set of wires.
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
19,707
Location
Mold, Clwyd
Looks like I’m wrong as always.
There's a WG ambition to electrify to Holyhead.
There have been several studies of the business case, and the recent Union Connectivity Report has recommended further study.
But there are serious problems with the idea.
The limited inter-city service (less than hourly) in North Wales does not support the case. There is minimal through traffic to Dublin these days.
Local/regional traffic is non-electrified, without also wiring to Warrington/Crewe, Shrewsbury, Wolverhampton and Newport.

HS2 has resolutely refused to put Chester/North Wales on its services map, as they don't want to fund the necessary electrification for through services.
So London services will not use HS2 and will stay on the slower WCML.
The most likely extension of the wires is from Crewe/Warrington to Chester, but even that is regarded as "too hard*", and is way down the priority list.
So there's little prospect of wires west of Chester until that issue is addressed.

There are local government bodies working together on this (Cheshire/Wirral/NE Wales) but they don't have serious funding for major enhancements.
There is a draft plan to improve capacity at Chester (eg a new platform 8 to get Merseyrail out of P7).
And as has been said, rail infrastructure in North Wales is not devolved.
Projects which the WG did have a hand in, to increase line speed in North Wales, and redouble Chester-Wrexham, went off half-cock at best.
They didn't fund the Halton Curve project which brought back through Wrexham-Chester-Liverpool trains.

* part of that is down to the way the railway was originally built, with many low arched brick/stone bridges needing replacement.
Ironically the North Wales line as far as Llandudno Jn is in better shape for wiring because it was at one time mostly a 4-track main line with better structures.
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
19,707
Location
Mold, Clwyd
I know, and it shows how much more capable the Welsh government is of doing things, unlike the UK government which does nothing.
The Welsh Government did not fund London-Cardiff electrification or the IEP train fleet.
The Valleys electrification (and Metro project) is being funded with a £250m grant from Westminster to Cardiff Bay.
 

Llandudno

Established Member
Joined
25 Dec 2014
Messages
2,205
I'd have thought there's no chance of electricfication to Holyhead happening by the end of the decade.
I doubt there is much chance before the end of the NEXT decade 2040.

But there are Welsh elections this week….!
 

CW2

Established Member
Joined
7 May 2020
Messages
1,923
Location
Crewe
I doubt there is much chance before the end of the NEXT decade 2040.

But there are Welsh elections this week….!
I think I'd better stop reading this thread.
I read that as "There are Welsh Electrons this week" and was wondering how you identify the ethnicity of an electron ...
 

wobman

On Moderation
Joined
2 Jan 2011
Messages
1,233
Tfw have lots of aspirations regarding the Welsh railways, it's all very ambitious and it will be interesting seeing what is achievable over what is just an aspiration.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top