Hope Valley Capacity Scheme updates

[Bunsenburner]

Pretty sure those same managers will be nowhere to be seen if something goes wrong and a driver's facing a panel to explain why a train was being driven faster than the permissible speed shown in the Sectional Appendix...

Ill be sticking to the lower differential speed until I see something in writing.

 

[td97]

We’ve been told by our management, that 185s are allowed to run at MU speeds on the south route only. Its been bought up quite a few times.

Your management are incorrect here. The relevant risk assessment does not say the 185 can run at MU. It will be written in black and white in the sectional appendix, and RIS form for "Route Level Assessment of Technical Compatibility between Vehicles and Infrastructure". 185s stay at PS.

 

[snowball]

Press release

Track and signalling works progress on Hope Valley Railway Upgrade despite tough conditions

The Hope Valley line improvements are nearing completion following significant track and signalling work completed this weekend, as team HVRU battled through harsh weather to deliver the upgrades.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

The Hope Valley line improvements are nearing completion following significant track and signalling work completed this weekend, as team HVRU battled through harsh weather to deliver the upgrades.

The work is part of a scheme to improve the reliability of passenger journeys travelling between Manchester and Sheffield.

Between Stockport and New Mills, a new signalling system covering over 13 miles of track was commissioned into service.

A total of 12 signals were installed to improve the line speed capability for trains, marking the completion of upgrades along this section of the line.

Towards Sheffield, 380m of track was installed in Grindleford, including 1850 tonnes of ballast and 430 sleepers.

The first set of stairs was also lifted in for a new, accessible footbridge at Dore & Totley station to connect the structure to the existing platform.

Graeme Whitehead, Senior Sponsor for the Hope Valley Railway Upgrade, said: “This was an important weekend for the scheme as we installed new track and carried out both signalling upgrades and further platform works at Dore & Totley.

“It brings us another step closer to improving the connectivity of Manchester and Sheffield and realising the benefits for passengers travelling by train.”

The rail improvements are being delivered for Network Rail by a joint venture of VolkerRail and Story Contracting.

Jim Goldsby, Project Director from VolkerRailStory JV, said: “It’s been a successful weekend on the project where the team reacted well to challenges created by difficult weather conditions.

“We’re pleased with the progress of work so far and are looking forward to completing the scheme over the coming months.”

The work was carried out during the first of four successive weekend railway line closures throughout January and February.

 

[Killingworth]

Press release

Track and signalling works progress on Hope Valley Railway Upgrade despite tough conditions

The Hope Valley line improvements are nearing completion following significant track and signalling work completed this weekend, as team HVRU battled through harsh weather to deliver the upgrades.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

Meanwhile, here where most of the action is, preparations are in hand to complete the footbridge at Dore with 4 crane lifts this weekend. The 1985 brick waiting shelter is due to be demolished as it is positioned too close to the new bridge to comply with current safe passenger circulation space requirements beside the platform edge. The large leylandii that features in some of my photos will be felled next week - a legacy from the back corner of the garden centre that was previously on the car park site. It's now a rail safety hazard after being excessively pruned earlier in the project - it should have gone then!

TPE's first stop at the new platform should be their 5.14 on 25th March, although official photographers probably won't be on hand until their 6.15. (The 5.14 was cancelled today, and quite often is, so that's probably safer on the Monday after a long possession.)

 

[Tomnick]

Your management are incorrect here. The relevant risk assessment does not say the 185 can run at MU. It will be written in black and white in the sectional appendix, and RIS form for "Route Level Assessment of Technical Compatibility between Vehicles and Infrastructure". 185s stay at PS.

I know TPE drivers who have been told by their managers during their brief that, on the strength of *an email* from Network Rail, they'll be allowed to run at MU speeds. They've rightly pushed back, because as you say the SA is absolutely clear, but it's worrying all the same!

 

[Bunsenburner]

I know TPE drivers who have been told by their managers during their brief that, on the strength of *an email* from Network Rail, they'll be allowed to run at MU speeds. They've rightly pushed back, because as you say the SA is absolutely clear, but it's worrying all the same!

Its come from the top of operations at TPE. Although until any timetable changes come in, ill be travelling at the PS and not the MU differential.

 

[ricoblade]

Lots of plant in Edale station yard this lunchtime, is something planned round there as opposed to Bamford?

 

[Tomnick]

Its come from the top of operations at TPE. Although until any timetable changes come in, ill be travelling at the PS and not the MU differential.

But it directly contradicts what's written definitively in the Sectional Appendix?! In the light of the comment from @td97 above, this is really really worrying.

 

[coxxy]

Numerous people have raised it, believe me. But trying to get anyone in standards to do anything about ut is like p.......g in the wind.

 

[tonysk14]

Sorry, I know the 185s are heavy, but is that the only reason they are not permitted to run at MU speeds?

 

[Bevan Price]

Presumably any "official" change will be notified in the Periodical Operating Notices ??

 

[waverley47]

Sorry, I know the 185s are heavy, but is that the only reason they are not permitted to run at MU speeds?

They are probably the heaviest multiple unit on the network in terms of axle loading. Downward forces on the track increase exponentially with weight and speed, so unless the track formation, every underbridge, and in some cases the track itself can handle it, it's not worth the money spent on rebuilding the line to accommodate it.

 

[Killingworth]

They are probably the heaviest multiple unit on the network in terms of axle loading. Downward forces on the track increase exponentially with weight and speed, so unless the track formation, every underbridge, and in some cases the track itself can handle it, it's not worth the money spent on rebuilding the line to accommodate it.

Isn't it the case that heavier rail is required and that requires stronger trackbed too? Rattling down from Edale seems quite fast but really isn't given the power of all stock using the route, not just 185s.

Whatever, there's a lot of activity along the closed route today, more pictures probably tomorrow.

Updated with picture if Dore & Totley footbridge at dawn.

 

[GhostManDN91]

Sheffield-Manchester EMR 158/170 trains are often timetabled to take less time than TPE's supposedly faster 185s. I live above Dore West Junction and can usually tell when a 185 goes over from the louder clatter it makes.

Anyway, there's lots of energetic activity on the sites this week as they make ready for the footbridge to go in at the weekend.

Interesting. So if you're going to Sheffield from Manchester it's quicker going on EMR then as they can run at higher speeds?

 

[LowLevel]

Interesting. So if you're going to Sheffield from Manchester it's quicker going on EMR then as they can run at higher speeds?

The EMR trains should be faster eastbound as the long gradients are mostly downhill so they do bounce along at 80-90 mph for much of the journey.

Westbound they take about the same time as the TPE if not slightly slower as the 158s/170s have nowhere near as much power to get up the hills and generally top out at about 70 mph anyway, particularly on the long drag up Norman's Bank at Edale.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

The EMR trains should be faster eastbound as the long gradients are mostly downhill so they do bounce along at 80-90 mph for much of the journey.

Westbound they take about the same time as the TPE if not slightly slower as the 158s/170s have nowhere near as much power to get up the hills and generally top out at about 70 mph anyway, particularly on the long drag up Norman's Bank at Edale.

EMR is faster by 3 minutes* in both directions looking at a timetable made through National Rail Enquiries for 10/2/2024

* Varies a bit from 2-3 minutes towards Piccadilly

 

[Mat17]

View attachment 150825 View attachment 150826

A very retro-WYPTE colour scheme there!

 

[furnessvale]

They are probably the heaviest multiple unit on the network in terms of axle loading. Downward forces on the track increase exponentially with weight and speed, so unless the track formation, every underbridge, and in some cases the track itself can handle it, it's not worth the money spent on rebuilding the line to accommodate it.

Given the millions of tonnes of freight on the Hope Valley line, I doubt it is axle loading on a slightly heavier than normal DMU causing the problem.

Possibly a case of braking distances etc?

 

[td97]

Given the millions of tonnes of freight on the Hope Valley line, I doubt it is axle loading on a slightly heavier than normal DMU causing the problem.

The modelled loading per 185 vehicle is 1.8x greater than a 158 (even with the 185 at the slower PS).
In a scenario of 1tph NT, TP & EM, and 0.5tph freight, the 185 is responsible for 40% of track loading.
These are heavy units and that is why they have always been limited to PS.

 

[furnessvale]

The modelled loading per 185 vehicle is 1.8x greater than a 158 (even with the 185 at the slower PS).
In a scenario of 1tph NT, TP & EM, and 0.5tph freight, the 185 is responsible for 40% of track loading.
These are heavy units and that is why they have always been limited to PS.

I have no idea how those track loadings are calculated, but if one 6 car DMU, even if it is 1.8x a 158, provides 40% of the track loading, I fail to see how half a 2200t freight train, with 25ton axle loads can provide less.

On the basis of this information, perhaps track access charges for freight should be reduced!

 

[edwin_m]

Given the millions of tonnes of freight on the Hope Valley line, I doubt it is axle loading on a slightly heavier than normal DMU causing the problem.

Possibly a case of braking distances etc?

It's not braking distance. Both the 158 and the 185 have 9%g braking, which is necessary to use SP differential speeds and I believe necessary for MU differentials at speeds above 75mph too (considering all MUs cleared for those speeds also have 9%g brakes).

I have no idea how those track loadings are calculated, but if one 6 car DMU, even if it is 1.8x a 158, provides 40% of the track loading, I fail to see how half a 2200t freight train, with 25ton axle loads can provide less.

On the basis of this information, perhaps track access charges for freight should be reduced!

The forces imparted to the track vary as a high power of speed, so a small increase in speed can increase the track forces a lot.

 

[alf]

The class 185 coaches are 1.2 metres longer than class 158 units.
That means the load & shock is spread out over a longer distance of infrastructure. That mitigates the force per length of track of the 185 versus the 158 as mentioned in post 1,650.

It helps the argument that the 185 should be allowed to travel at 158 speeds.
The infrastructure forces will still be larger than those imposed by the 158 but not as great as suggested in post 1,650.

 

[furnessvale]

The forces imparted to the track vary as a high power of speed, so a small increase in speed can increase the track forces a lot.

Thanks for that, so my last comment stands. What price the damage done by high speed passenger locomotives? It looks like freight is blamed too much for track condition!

 

[Killingworth]

Latest pictures taken this afternoon, Sunday, around Dore with work still proceeding until the early hours on Monday. The new footbridge is hated/detested by a few but generally accepted by most and positively admired by a goodly number of spectators. Old waiting shelter has now gone. Tree goes next week.

On the curve/chord/loop work there's been great activity prior to track laying on 11th February. Telephoto lens accentuates the curve.

 

[edwin_m]

Thanks for that, so my last comment stands. What price the damage done by high speed passenger locomotives? It looks like freight is blamed too much for track condition!

The track impact loads will depend on numerous factors, including speed, axle load, and unsprung mass. Without access to the dynamic modelling it's not really possible to say which design at what speed causes the greatest damage.

 

[ABB125]

Latest pictures taken this afternoon, Sunday, around Dore with work still proceeding until the early hours on Monday. The new footbridge is hated/detested by a few but generally accepted by most and positively admired by a goodly number of spectators. Old waiting shelter has now gone. Tree goes next week.

On the curve/chord/loop work there's been great activity prior to track laying on 11th February. Telephoto lens accentuates the curve.

View attachment 151320 View attachment 151321

View attachment 151322 View attachment 151319

Do you know if the footbridge is designed to be easily extendable, in the unlikely event that platforms are reopened on the main line? Or would it have to be replaced?

 

[Bryson]

The station is looking good. It's nice to see it looking like a real station again after so long as a 1 platform halt. I think the bridge looks good but I can understand the complaints as it is very prominent and probably much bigger than people expected.

Looking at the Curve it's hard to believe that the tracks will be going down on February 11th.

 

[Jamesrob637]

The station is looking good. It's nice to see it looking like a real station again after so long as a 1 platform halt. I think the bridge looks good but I can understand the complaints as it is very prominent and probably much bigger than people expected.

Looking at the Curve it's hard to believe that the tracks will be going down on February 11th.

That's why the line is closed literally every weekend this winter.

 

[Iskra]

I like the old Midland colours being used, a nice nod to history and in keeping with the more historic, less functional stations further down the MML. The problem is it looks an outlier because there’s not as much Midland Red/crimson around as there probably should be in this area.

Thank you to @Killingworth for the updates and excellent photo’s.

 

[midland1]

I like the old Midland colours being used, a nice nod to history and in keeping with the more historic, less functional stations further down the MML. The problem is it looks an outlier because there’s not as much Midland Red/crimson around as there probably should be in this area.

Thank you to @Killingworth for the updates and excellent photo’s.

Is that not Midland fencing bottom left on the photo from the bridge?