Hope Valley Capacity Scheme updates

[Killingworth]

I would guess three track would run bi di? Probably not so bad if the track splits before Dore & Totley, rather than having to share a single track through the station too.

Did services towards Hope Valley waiting for clearance to pass Dore often block the mainline waiting for the train coming the opposite direction to clear the space? Not timetabled of course, but given the frequent delays to the long distance services passing through...

Therefore the existing work will hopefully mean less prospect for knock on delays arriving at Sheffield and therefore make the bottleneck easier to manage?

My understanding is that there would be a bi-directional track and loops between Dore and Sheffield.

Currently trains are quite often choked coming south out of Sheffield.

They may be held in the platform at Sheffield but a prompt departure is often thwarted by being held in the up Heeley loop, usually to allow a delayed TPE service to overtake. Sometimes a Cross Country or EMR St Pancras service may also be given preference.

The next peril is missing the path to cross the down MML at Dore Station Junction. It's galling to have left on time and then to be held twice before Dore. Without grade separation (never seriously considered) there is no avoiding this potential conflict. A signallers call depending on where the build ups are worst, but clearing the southbound MML must be a priority. That can't be done if there's anything coming east on the Hope Valley line through the current single line section.

Currently the Northern stopper and EMR Liverpool-Norwich services cross within 5 minutes of each other around Dore. The eastbound stopper is quite often held for the westbound EMR service. That potential conflict will be eliminated once the new arrangements go live at Dore Station Junction.

Big savings should come from allowing MML northbound trains of empty wagons round to stand on the new Dore loop rather than waiting at Dore South Junction. It should also hold loaded wagons off the Hope Valley before they can get a path across the down MML to go south through Bradway Tunnel.

New signalling of the section from Unstone to the south, just outside Sheffield to the north, and west as far as Bamford on one panel should make regulation easier too.

Work on the new Dore loop is rather bogged down at present following the very wet weather in recent months.

 

[Jamesrob637]

My understanding is that there would be a bi-directional track and loops between Dore and Sheffield.

Currently trains are quite often choked coming south out of Sheffield.

They may be held in the platform at Sheffield but a prompt departure is often thwarted by being held in the up Heeley loop, usually to allow a delayed TPE service to overtake. Sometimes a Cross Country or EMR St Pancras service may also be given preference.

The next peril is missing the path to cross the down MML at Dore Station Junction. It's galling to have left on time and then to be held twice before Dore. Without grade separation (never seriously considered) there is no avoiding this potential conflict. A signallers call depending on where the build ups are worst, but clearing the southbound MML must be a priority. That can't be done if there's anything coming east on the Hope Valley line through the current single line section.

Currently the Northern stopper and EMR Liverpool-Norwich services cross within 5 minutes of each other around Dore. The eastbound stopper is quite often held for the westbound EMR service. That potential conflict will be eliminated once the new arrangements go live at Dore Station Junction.

Big savings should come from allowing MML northbound trains of empty wagons round to stand on the new Dore loop rather than waiting at Dore South Junction. It should also hold loaded wagons off the Hope Valley before they can get a path across the down MML to go south through Bradway Tunnel.

New signalling of the section from Unstone to the south, just outside Sheffield to the north, and west as far as Bamford on one panel should make regulation easier too.

Work on the new Dore loop is rather bogged down at present following the very wet weather in recent months.

View attachment 152657

Will that bit of single line going to the left be doubled? It's barely a few hundred metres long.

 

[Killingworth]

Will that bit of single line going to the left be doubled? It's barely a few hundred metres long.

Yes, that's where it was singled to go through the station. There's a 9 day blockade leading up to opening of the doubled section on Monday 25th March. That is now the critical remaining area.

 

[Nottingham59]

Why's that?

You wouldn't pan up where the wiring is complicated. You'd want to wait until a straight section of line with no junctions.

If the Dore south curve is not wired, then a southbound class 99 will have to join the MML and then negotiate the crossover to the southbound track. It would be in the Bradway tunnel before the driver can think about panning up. This section of track has a steep uphill gradient, with heavy stone trains starting from a stand after waiting for a slot to join the MML. It would be far easier to do that with 6MW on AC instead of 1.6MW on diesel.

 

[Killingworth]

You wouldn't pan up where the wiring is complicated. You'd want to wait until a straight section of line with no junctions.

If the Dore south curve is not wired, then a southbound class 99 will have to join the MML and then negotiate the crossover to the southbound track. It would be in the Bradway tunnel before the driver can think about panning up. This section of track has a steep uphill gradient, with heavy stone trains starting from a stand after waiting for a slot to join the MML. It would be far easier to do that with 6MW on AC instead of 1.6MW on diesel.

The ideal place might be coasting on the downhill straight after leaving Totley Tunnel before entering the new loop? Same for a train heading north towards Sheffield before passing through Dore station, although in the station itself if stopping.

 

[Nottingham59]

The ideal place might be coasting on the downhill straight after leaving Totley Tunnel before entering the new loop?

Yes. Or on the curve itself, if being held at a signal.

I don't know, but I expect the gradient up to Bradway may well be the steepest uphill section that many loaded stone trains from the Peak quarries will encounter on the MML. Certainly the original North Midland Railway from Derby to Leeds avoided Sheffield because of the gradients that would be required.

 

[Killingworth]

Yes. Or on the curve itself, if being held at a signal.

I don't know, but I expect the gradient up to Bradway may well be the steepest uphill section that many loaded stone trains from the Peak quarries will encounter on the MML. Certainly the original North Midland Railway from Derby to Leeds avoided Sheffield because of the gradients that would be required.

The curve through Dore Tunnel must be 90 degrees on top of the gradient so ideally a loaded train needs to keep momentum as much as possible. But we're a few years away from detailed electrification proposals.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Yes, that's where it was singled to go through the station. There's a 9 day blockade leading up to opening of the doubled section on Monday 25th March. That is now the critical remaining area.

So they'll double that last stretch during the 9-day closure? Or do you mean they'll get the two-way through the station sorted out but come back for that last single stretch later?

 

[Killingworth]

So they'll double that last stretch during the 9-day closure? Or do you mean they'll get the two-way through the station sorted out but come back for that last single stretch later?

The loop was supposed to have been laid on 11th February, postponed from an originally planned August completion date as previously explained. The very wet weather has now caused a drainage issue.

The section you see going to the left is the end of the line through the new platform so without doubling that the whole scheme can't work. It's rather looking as though the connection of the extended loop may have to be deferred, but that has not been confirmed. There's a 4 day blockade due 27-30th April.

 

[Tomnick]

The loop was supposed to have been laid on 11th February, postponed from an originally planned August completion date as previously explained. The very wet weather has now caused a drainage issue.

The section you see going to the left is the end of the line through the new platform so without doubling that the whole scheme can't work. It's rather looking as though the connection of the extended loop may have to be deferred, but that has not been confirmed. There's a 4 day blockade due 27-30th April.

I'd be surprised if any of the scheme, around Dore at least, can be commissioned if Dore Curve isn't ready in its proposed final form. It'd be rather a nightmare to try and cobble together a temporary arrangement using existing equipment.

 

[Killingworth]

I'd be surprised if any of the scheme, around Dore at least, can be commissioned if Dore Curve isn't ready in its proposed final form. It'd be rather a nightmare to try and cobble together a temporary arrangement using existing equipment.

It looks a bit problematic just now, as anyone driving past will clearly see, but the work team are supposedly finished at the end of April.

 

[Cowley]

Just a reminder that this thread is just for the Hope Valley capacity improvement scheme and not for discussion electrification etc.

Thanks!

 

[LowLevel]

A couple of shots of Dore taken from a stationary train. It is coming along rapidly.

New signals, off indicator etc erected at Grindleford too.

 

[Killingworth]

4 weeks to go before the scheme is due to go live on 25th March. The Bamford loop has looked complete for some time, although after 13 months the Hathersage West footbridge still needs painting and final touches before opening.

Dore & Totley station is looking more ready for operational service by the hour. Tidying up around the entrance and car park won't be complete until late May with the car park fully open again on 1st June.

The Dore loop site below Poynton Wood has suffered badly from the recent wet weather requiring extra drainage but the 9 day blockade period from 16th - 24th March should allow that to be completed on time.



From West View Lane looking north towards Dore West From Twentywell Lane looking towards West View Lane and Dore West

 

[Meerkat]

Sorry, I can't remember the end state - will that crossover in the photo for west to south be going, with the only route to/from west/south being via the lengthened loop and the crossover further west? That (new?) crossover is a bit of a way west of the end of the loop - whilst much better than now wont an Eastbound freight creeping into the loop block the Westbound line for a fair while?

 

[Freightmaster]

Sorry, I can't remember the end state - will that crossover in the photo for west to south be going, with the only route to/from west/south being via the lengthened loop and the crossover further west? That (new?) crossover is a bit of a way west of the end of the loop - whilst much better than now wont an Eastbound freight creeping into the loop block the Westbound line for a fair while?

Yes to all the above!




MARK

 

[Dr Hoo]

Sorry, I can't remember the end state - will that crossover in the photo for west to south be going, with the only route to/from west/south being via the lengthened loop and the crossover further west? That (new?) crossover is a bit of a way west of the end of the loop - whilst much better than now wont an Eastbound freight creeping into the loop block the Westbound line for a fair while?

Yes to all the above!

Noting that the lowest speed restriction will be on the very tight South Curve itself, my understanding was that the new crossover was going to be 40mph, leading up to the turnout to the curve and the curve itself, which will be 20mph (up from 15mph currently).

Have I got this wrong? Not quite a 'creep' (although longer and heavier trains will obviously take longer to pass through any junction).

 

[Tomnick]

Noting that the lowest speed restriction will be on the very tight South Curve itself, my understanding was that the new crossover was going to be 40mph, leading up to the turnout to the curve and the curve itself, which will be 20mph (up from 15mph currently).

Have I got this wrong? Not quite a 'creep' (although longer and heavier trains will obviously take longer to pass through any junction).

This is correct. One assumes that the approach control arrangements on the protecting signal will be rather less restrictive than at present too (and the current protecting signal is quite a way back from the junction). As well as the obvious benefit that a freight train being held on the curve for one to pass on the Up Main won't be fouling the Hope Valley lines as at present, I'm sure it'll all be a bit quicker to get clear anyway

 

[zwk500]

This is correct. One assumes that the approach control arrangements on the protecting signal will be rather less restrictive than at present too (and the current protecting signal is quite a way back from the junction). As well as the obvious benefit that a freight train being held on the curve for one to pass on the Up Main won't be fouling the Hope Valley lines as at present, I'm sure it'll all be a bit quicker to get clear anyway

The junction margins are in the TPRs which are available on NR's website, and although I haven't gone through in detail, they seem to represent a considerable improvement on the most restrictive values.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

I will admit to not following this thread particularly closely so if the following has already been mentioned, apologies.

I was in Hazel Grove today and noted the line speed towards Stockport is now 60 (previously 40). I was aware this was to be part of the route upgrade but am not sure how recent this change is although the SA as at Dec 2023 still shows 40.

Potentially, until there is any timetable change it will slightly help make up any lost time, but on the other hand perhaps merely extend the time so many trains have to stand waiting to cross Edgeley Junction, perhaps more benefits in the towards Sheffield direction.

 

[td97]

the SA as at Dec 2023 still shows 40

Was updated on 20/1/24

 

[Killingworth]

I will admit to not following this thread particularly closely so if the following has already been mentioned, apologies.

I was in Hazel Grove today and noted the line speed towards Stockport is now 60 (previously 40). I was aware this was to be part of the route upgrade but am not sure how recent this change is although the SA as at Dec 2023 still shows 40.

Potentially, until there is any timetable change it will slightly help make up any lost time, but on the other hand perhaps merely extend the time so many trains have to stand waiting to cross Edgeley Junction, perhaps more benefits in the towards Sheffield direction.

For those using the TPE and EMR services recovery time is important, not least to recover time lost prior to reaching Piccadilly from the west and Sheffield from the east as much as between Sheffield and Manchester.

Once the new layout has proved itself tightening and revisions of timetables should be possible from June 2025. Maybe a few minor changes this December, possibly?

 

[furnessvale]

I will admit to not following this thread particularly closely so if the following has already been mentioned, apologies.

I was in Hazel Grove today and noted the line speed towards Stockport is now 60 (previously 40). I was aware this was to be part of the route upgrade but am not sure how recent this change is although the SA as at Dec 2023 still shows 40.

Potentially, until there is any timetable change it will slightly help make up any lost time, but on the other hand perhaps merely extend the time so many trains have to stand waiting to cross Edgeley Junction, perhaps more benefits in the towards Sheffield direction.

Alternatively, the ability to arrive at Edgeley slightly earlier could make the difference between being held back or being allowed to cross the junction.

I am occasionally a "glass half full" man!

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Alternatively, the ability to arrive at Edgeley slightly earlier could make the difference between being held back or being allowed to cross the junction.

I am occasionally a "glass half full" man!

A very good point!

 

[Killingworth]

Trains between Sheffield and both Manchester and Chesterfield are held up by over running engineering work. Local news is that laying the new track for the Dore loop is part of the problem. At 11am both running tracks were still occupied alongside the newly laid track.

At 12.30 reported as blocked until 17.00.

There was also over running engineering obstruction on lines from Sheffield to Meadowhall this morning.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Will the south-west to south-east part of the junction be re-doubled as part of this works?

 

[Spartacus]

An RRV trailer derailed around Healey, hot box detector damaged, then the RRV couldn't be restarted or brakes released

 

[Rail Ranger]

Thanks. It's spelt "Heeley" (between Sheffield and Dore).

 

[snowball]

Thanks. It's spelt "Heeley" (between Sheffield and Dore).

And once had Frank Hooley as its MP: "Hooley for Heeley".

 

[Spartacus]

Thanks. It's spelt "Heeley" (between Sheffield and Dore).

Bldy autocorrect...