Hope Valley Capacity Scheme updates

[edwin_m]

The signed 10'9" is allegedly available between the two white vertical pieces of wood. Or at least out to where the right hand one should be if it hadn't most likely been struck by an overheight vehicle...

Just taking out the arch and replacing with a beam bridge would probably achieve around the maximum height of the arch right across the road width, especially if they use a structure with the load bearing beams above rail level. This would allow the indicated clearance to be at least a foot higher.

 

[td97]

Surprisingly this bridge job is completely unrelated to the Hope Valley project.
Hoping the HV project will make use of the closure for recoveries, follow up tamping, and various unfinished items including lineside cable troughing and the trap on the Grindleford Down Siding.

 

[jamess]

Please let me know about any glitches on here or by email. I basically did the map based on information in this thread, which may well not have been final.

Eastbound trains after leaving Grindleford, do not appear in the 2 berths within Totley Tunnel and jump straight to the berth at Dore West Jnc, in front of 4032 points.

 

[Freightmaster]

Eastbound trains after leaving Grindleford, do not appear in the 2 berths within Totley Tunnel and jump straight to the berth at Dore West Jnc, in front of 4032 points.

All signals in Totley Tunnel are 'distants' which don't have an associated Train Describer berth.



MARK

 

[takno]

Eastbound trains after leaving Grindleford, do not appear in the 2 berths within Totley Tunnel and jump straight to the berth at Dore West Jnc, in front of 4032 points.

All signals in Totley Tunnel are 'distants' which don't have an associated Train Describer berth.

Good point. I haven't had to read a VDU shot for ages and read those as real signals. I probably should have thought to check the actual data feed yesterday. Map is now corrected anyway, and slightly extended to cover the fringe signals which appear in the feed.

 

[Freightmaster]

Good point. I haven't had to read a VDU shot for ages and read those as real signals.

For future reference, the 'giveaway' is the little triangle on a plate below the signal:







MARK

 

[snalty]

Uh-oh https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service-disruptions/dore-20240327/

 

[GardenRail]

Nice to see Bamford Loop getting used for the late Hope Valley Stopper, 2S74 tonight. Letting 1B90 overtake.

 

[jamess]

Good point. I haven't had to read a VDU shot for ages and read those as real signals. I probably should have thought to check the actual data feed yesterday. Map is now corrected anyway, and slightly extended to cover the fringe signals which appear in the feed.

Can you also add the platform numbers at Dore please? That will complete this map and the recent changes. Thanks

 

[Killingworth]

Nice to see Bamford Loop getting used for the late Hope Valley Stopper, 2S74 tonight. Letting 1B90 overtake.

Curious, the stopper was on time at Chinley.

 

[GardenRail]

Curious, the stopper was on time at Chinley.

Absolute Block Signalling, it was following 6L01, which was following 1L17.

 

[Tomnick]

Absolute Block Signalling, it was following 6L01, which was following 1L17.

Not helped by the fact that 6L01 appears to have been planned to run a mere 1½ minutes ahead of the stopper around Edale and Earles!

 

[1D53]

Schedule errors involve freight on the Hope Valley - how unusual...

 

[takethegame]

For future reference, the 'giveaway' is the little triangle on a plate below the signal:


View attachment 155185




MARK

Can we all get access to maps like these?

 

[takno]

Can we all get access to maps like these?

You certainly can - they're a few pages back on this very thread.

 

[edwin_m]

Absolute Block Signalling, it was following 6L01, which was following 1L17.

Now there is a loop, the long blocks on the remaining AB sections may be more of a constraint than they were before, as trains could otherwise be closer together when approaching the loop.

 

[Tomnick]

Now there is a loop, the long blocks on the remaining AB sections may be more of a constraint than they were before, as trains could otherwise be closer together when approaching the loop.

The longest section on the approach is Chinley to Edale, which is only a mile or so longer than the length of Cowburn Tunnel – so, even if it were resignalled, you'd still have a relatively long section there as a constraint. Edale to Earles is broken up by an IB. I'm surprised that an extra stop signal wasn't inserted between Earles and Bamford though to match what's been provided on the Down.

 

[takethegame]

You certainly can - they're a few pages back on this very thread.

I'm still looking for it!

 

[Freightmaster]

I'm still looking for it!

Here you go:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/hope-valley-capacity-scheme-updates.168285/page-51#post-6548605




MARK

 

[Phillipimo]

My best attempt at a roughly to scale signalling diagram for Chinley to Dore & Totley in the eastbound direction with the new loop and signals. The red and yellow bands represent the signal sections, showing how the long sections through the tunnels constrain capacity. Hope there aren't too many errors.

 

[Winthorpe]

My best attempt at a roughly to scale signalling diagram for Chinley to Dore & Totley in the eastbound direction with the new loop and signals. The red and yellow bands represent the signal sections, showing how the long sections through the tunnels constrain capacity. Hope there aren't too many errors.

View attachment 155366

That's brilliant; than you for sharing it

 

[takethegame]

My best attempt at a roughly to scale signalling diagram for Chinley to Dore & Totley in the eastbound direction with the new loop and signals. The red and yellow bands represent the signal sections, showing how the long sections through the tunnels constrain capacity. Hope there aren't too many errors.

View attachment 155366

Great effort, it certainly helped visualise the whole section. I've never understood (but hopefully people will tell me) the purpose of distant signals in the modern age.

 

[zwk500]

Great effort, it certainly helped visualise the whole section. I've never understood (but hopefully people will tell me) the purpose of distant signals in the modern age.

There are two main uses:
1. If signals are far apart then drivers need warning the upcoming signal is at Red to safely brake for the signal. Obvious examples would be on single lines that operate as a single section, but will also usually happen with Absolute or Intermediate Block areas, and fringes between TCB and AB. A Green-Yellow signal is used because if the Red/Green signal is at Green, you don't want trains to slow down unnecessarily.
2. If you want to maintain the aspect sequences for headway but have a location you don't want a train to be stopped in. (e.g. within a Tunnel). Trains are usually planned to run on greens where possible so a distant signal keeps the headway even, and it only presents less capacity if trains are backing up behind each other.

Totley tunnel appears to be a bit of both, and there are almost certainly other examples that don't fit into either of these categories.

 

[takethegame]

There are two main uses:
1. If signals are far apart then drivers need warning the upcoming signal is at Red to safely brake for the signal. Obvious examples would be on single lines that operate as a single section, but will also usually happen with Absolute or Intermediate Block areas, and fringes between TCB and AB. A Green-Yellow signal is used because if the Red/Green signal is at Green, you don't want trains to slow down unnecessarily.
2. If you want to maintain the aspect sequences for headway but have a location you don't want a train to be stopped in. (e.g. within a Tunnel). Trains are usually planned to run on greens where possible so a distant signal keeps the headway even, and it only presents less capacity if trains are backing up behind each other.

Totley tunnel appears to be a bit of both, and there are almost certainly other examples that don't fit into either of these categories.

Thanks, total understand the significance for tunnels but otherwise for long sections, better to split them up into separate sections with a single LED providing 3 aspects to offer more capacity/flexibility?

 

[zwk500]

Thanks, total understand the significance for tunnels but otherwise for long sections, better to split them up into separate sections with a single LED providing 3 aspects to offer more capacity/flexibility?

If you put a Red on the distant signal, you'd need another signal capable of showing a Yellow at service distance behind it. This drives the cost up as another signal = more interlocking, train detection, maintenance etc. Most of these signals are usually being added in as quick ways to increase capacity a little bit and so want to keep costs as low as possible - if you wanted a major upgrade you'd go to full TBC with standard 3- or 4-aspect signalling.

 

[davetheguard]

My best attempt at a roughly to scale signalling diagram for Chinley to Dore & Totley in the eastbound direction with the new loop and signals. The red and yellow bands represent the signal sections, showing how the long sections through the tunnels constrain capacity. Hope there aren't too many errors.

View attachment 155366

Two signals inside Totley tunnel is surprising to this observer from the south west. Not sure an extended signal stop within the tunnel would be much fun for anyone. Can't be easy to maintain either.

 

[zwk500]

Two signals inside Totley tunnel is surprising to this observer from the south west. Not sure an extended signal stop within the tunnel would be much fun for anyone. Can't be easy to maintain either.

The two signals inside Totley Tunnel are both not capable of showing a Red (as indicated on the graphic), so you'd be held outside the tunnel in the event of something waiting at the junction. It also means there's a double yellow aspect in the Tunnel, helpful for the braking distances as the 3 signals after the tunnel aren't that far apart, I don't think. @GardenRail may be able to give a clearer explanation of the rationale for the 2 distants.

 

[davetheguard]

The two signals inside Totley Tunnel are both not capable of showing a Red (as indicated on the graphic), so you'd be held outside the tunnel in the event of something waiting at the junction. It also means there's a double yellow aspect in the Tunnel, helpful for the braking distances as the 3 signals after the tunnel aren't that far apart, I don't think. @GardenRail may be able to give a clearer explanation of the rationale for the 2 distants.

They're just colour light distants then? That makes much more sense. Thanks.

 

[louis97]

The two signals inside Totley Tunnel are both not capable of showing a Red (as indicated on the graphic), so you'd be held outside the tunnel in the event of something waiting at the junction. It also means there's a double yellow aspect in the Tunnel, helpful for the braking distances as the 3 signals after the tunnel aren't that far apart, I don't think. @GardenRail may be able to give a clearer explanation of the rationale for the 2 distants.

The two distants will be to avoid having an over braked section like there was before. Before there was a 3 aspect distant in the tunnel with full braking distance to the next signal, this meant when you approached it at a double yellow, you had a full braking distance to the next signal alone. By putting in an extra distant you avoid this and can be checked down to the second signal outside the tunnel without it being over braked (and potentially slowing down earlier than you need to).

 

[Killingworth]

I don't know how much the signalling should be changing things but freight services out of the Hope Valley seem to be going more quickly through Dore & Totley station Platform 2.