Horn sounding

[Dieseldriver]

Makes sense until you bowl someone over on a crossing.

Yep. I had problems with a manager over this very issue and decided to blow very long low tones at whistle boards for a little while to 'placate' them. A few weeks later I cane round a curve approaching a foot crossing at high speed after blowing a single tone at the whistle board. There was an older gentleman still in my four foot who had just started crossing (he must have started crossing as I was blowing the horn for the whistle board), the second I saw him I blew a long two tone warning and he quickened his pace to get out of my way. It was not a near miss but it was uncomfortable and I honestly think that he hadn't properly heard my warning at the whistle board.
Goes without saying that I religiously use both tones for whistle boards since then and am more than happy to explain my actions to any manager petty enough to create an issue out of it.

 

[Bedpan]

I have heard on some loco hauled stock (ScotRail or Cumbrian Coast or Norwich maybe?) that the horn is used on departure and I presumed it was for that reason too!

They never used to do this in the old days, or at least I never came across it having lived in Outer London/Surrey. Imagine the cacophony of sound had every train departing Clapham Junction sounded a horn or whistle. Local residents where I live now complain about the platform announcements so imagine the outcry if there was to be a two tone going off at least 12 times an hour during the day. (Well it would have been 12 times an hour if the full May timetable was implimented).

 

[adrock1976]

In Bombay (not sure about the rest of India), there is a constant sound of horns throughout the day as before the train moves away from the platform, the driver blasts the horn.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

I notice that few of the older drivers (Link 1 dinosaurs ) will always sound the horn upon departure when leaving the station.

 

[Esker-pades]

Are there any specific instructions re. approaching a platform edge at speed?
For example: At Bedford, down EMT services always sound their horn when passing through non-stop. I'm not sure of the speed limit, but I think it's 85mph.

 

[SPADTrap]

Are there any specific instructions re. approaching a platform edge at speed?
For example: At Bedford, down EMT services always sound their horn when passing through non-stop. I'm not sure of the speed limit, but I think it's 85mph.

110 for the platform and 125 before and after. There are two whistle boards on the approach on the blind curve.

 

[Esker-pades]

110 for the platform and 125 before and after. There are two whistle boards on the approach on the blind curve.

That makes a lot more sense. Thanks.

 

[Millisle]

Is the horn not sounded on departure on on preserved lines as an acknowledgement to the guards right away signal green flag/lamp ?

This was a universal acknowledgement in my younger days with hauled stock when there was no internal communication between guard and driver. It was nothing to do with a forward warning. Very occasionally a particular driver I sat behind on a first generation DMU would do the same, but that was evidently idiosyncratic and unnecessary.

 

[dk1]

This was a universal acknowledgement in my younger days with hauled stock when there was no internal communication between guard and driver. It was nothing to do with a forward warning. Very occasionally a particular driver I sat behind on a first generation DMU would do the same, but that was evidently idiosyncratic and unnecessary.

We still do it on GA Intercity services on the rare occasion nowadays when the bell/buzzer comms fail.

 

[Macwomble]

Is the horn/whistle not sounded on departure on preserved lines as an acknowledgement to the guards right away signal green flag/lamp ?

Certainly is on the preserved line on which I'm a volunteer (NYMR).

 

[Strat-tastic]

I have heard on some loco hauled stock (ScotRail or Cumbrian Coast or Norwich maybe?) that the horn is used on departure and I presumed it was for that reason too!

The Norwich-Great Yarmouth 37s did the other day when I was on it (both ways), now you mention it.

 

[dk1]

The Norwich-Great Yarmouth 37s did the other day when I was on it (both ways), now you mention it.

Because they have no bell/buzzer & rely on flags.

 

[DDB]

The more I think about it, the more I question the wisdom of changing to one tone for public crossings. I don't see the benefit as surely any horn noise will disturb local residents regardless of number of tones or length. As a member of the public a two tone horn is associated with a train in my mind so I would take a lot of notice of it if I was on or near a crossing. I worry that a single tone is more likely to be confused for a road vehicle horn.
Did anyone do any research into public perception before the change?
DDB

 

[dk1]

The more I think about it, the more I question the wisdom of changing to one tone for public crossings. I don't see the benefit as surely any horn noise will disturb local residents regardless of number of tones or length. As a member of the public a two tone horn is associated with a train in my mind so I would take a lot of notice of it if I was on or near a crossing. I worry that a single tone is more likely to be confused for a road vehicle horn.
Did anyone do any research into public perception before the change?
DDB

This has caused so so many arguments in team brief & safety meetings. I still cannot believe it ever got through but fear not, many of us still do it the old fashioned & sensible two tone way. Who's to say there wasn't a glimpse of orange nearby that looked like track workers? Most decent driver managers agree too anyway. Bloody RSSB & their over keen employees trying to make a name for themselves.

 

[ainsworth74]

I worry that a single tone is more likely to be confused for a road vehicle horn.

This could be an old wives tale but I've been lead to believe that the reason two tone horns were introduced in the first place was precisely that reason. Steam whistles were very very obviously different to car horns or other road vehicles but when dieselisation kicked off in the 1950s there was a need to make sure that trains were very obvious to people and could be told apart from cars. Hence the two tone.

 

[Trackman]

This could be an old wives tale but I've been lead to believe that the reason two tone horns were introduced in the first place was precisely that reason. Steam whistles were very very obviously different to car horns or other road vehicles but when dieselisation kicked off in the 1950s there was a need to make sure that trains were very obvious to people and could be told apart from cars. Hence the two tone.

That's what I have heard, oddly enough the trams in Manchester have a steam whistle effect to differentiate between cars and trams.
I think MK3 DVT 82's had a steam whistle effect too, only one tone?

 

[AndrewE]

I think the GWR and maybe other pre-grouping railways had a "Whistle before every movement" rule, and this is what the current preserved railways are perpetuating. Maybe they are just acknowledging the right away from the guard though.
The older whistle/horn thread stated that noise nuisance was the reason for the current "fashion" for a single tone at foot crossings, but I agree that the two-tone horn distinguishes an approaching train from all other warnings, which is why I was astonished that it had been changed.
It was nice when out on the track to get a short acknowledgment toot in response to a waved arm too, looks as though that has disappeared - if it was ever official!

 

[Eyersey468]

There's a story that the steam whistle was invented as a result of an accident on the Leicester and Swannington Railway involving a locomotive called Samson and a farmer's wagon, I've no idea if it's true or not though

 

[Elecman]

There's a story that the steam whistle was invented as a result of an accident on the Leicester and Swannington Railway involving a locomotive called Samson and a farmer's wagon, I've no idea if it's true or not though

Yes that is correct

 

[sw1ller]

Which one would help me sleep better at night after I’ve taken someone out on a crossing? 1 tone knowing I’ve done the minimum, or two tones know I’ve done pretty much all I could?? Simple really. There are places I just sound the once, yes, but these are low speed areas where I have very good visibility of the crossing. If there’s a tiny doubt in my mind that someone may not hear a single horn blast, I’ll give two.

 

[alxndr]

It was nice when out on the track to get a short acknowledgment toot in response to a waved arm too, looks as though that has disappeared - if it was ever official!

I find it’s hit and miss whether there’s an acknowledgement tone or not, or even if there’s a hand raised in acknowledgement by the driver. During the night some freights flick the lights which I suspect is completely unofficial but it is quite nice to be acknowledged without deafened.

 

[380101]

The more I think about it, the more I question the wisdom of changing to one tone for public crossings. I don't see the benefit as surely any horn noise will disturb local residents regardless of number of tones or length. As a member of the public a two tone horn is associated with a train in my mind so I would take a lot of notice of it if I was on or near a crossing. I worry that a single tone is more likely to be confused for a road vehicle horn.
Did anyone do any research into public perception before the change?
DDB

The change to one tone at Whistle boards came around, I'm led to believe, when they changed the rule on defective horns ie; you can still run with only one tone working so this rule change had a knock on effect to other rules regarding the horn.

I have reverted to using both tones at whistle boards now since I received the ASLEF circular on the issue last month. I highlighted the relevant paragraph in tue circular and posted it in our ASLEF notice case, but as is the norm most drivers dont pay a blind bit of attention to ASLEF circulars unless it involves pay talks!

 

[Steve Harris]

They never used to do this in the old days, or at least I never came across it having lived in Outer London/Surrey. Imagine the cacophony of sound had every train departing Clapham Junction sounded a horn or whistle. Local residents where I live now complain about the platform announcements so imagine the outcry if there was to be a two tone going off at least 12 times an hour during the day. (Well it would have been 12 times an hour if the full May timetable was implimented).

Depends on what you mean by "in the old days". But as most rolling stock through Clapham Junction for years has been EMU's, which have a bell /buzzer system, there is no need to blow the horn.

As many posters on here have said and i tend to agree, the horn is used as an acknowledgement (on loco hauled stock without a bell / buzzer system) to the guard when leaving a station.

 

[Clip]

In Bombay (not sure about the rest of India), there is a constant sound of horns throughout the day as before the train moves away from the platform, the driver blasts the horn.

They have people walking all over the track all day and night though so im not surprised

 

[theageofthetra]

I think the GWR and maybe other pre-grouping railways had a "Whistle before every movement" rule, and this is what the current preserved railways are perpetuating. Maybe they are just acknowledging the right away from the guard though.
The older whistle/horn thread stated that noise nuisance was the reason for the current "fashion" for a single tone at foot crossings, but I agree that the two-tone horn distinguishes an approaching train from all other warnings, which is why I was astonished that it had been changed.
It was nice when out on the track to get a short acknowledgment toot in response to a waved arm too, looks as though that has disappeared - if it was ever official![/QUO

Wasn't that from maritime practice?

The change to one tone at Whistle boards came around, I'm led to believe, when they changed the rule on defective horns ie; you can still run with only one tone working so this rule change had a knock on effect to other rules regarding the horn.

I have reverted to using both tones at whistle boards now since I received the ASLEF circular on the issue last month. I highlighted the relevant paragraph in tue circular and posted it in our ASLEF notice case, but as is the norm most drivers dont pay a blind bit of attention to ASLEF circulars unless it involves pay talks!

Why don't they email circulars?

 

[380101]

Why don't they email circulars?

They do. You just need to sign up to them on the members part of the website. But, as I pointed out above, most drivers dont take an interest in anything the union puts out inless its to do with pay and conditions. ASLEF publish a monthly magazine and the majority of guys dont even take it out the wrapper before they bin it.

 

[theironroad]

I think the GWR and maybe other pre-grouping railways had a "Whistle before every movement" rule, and this is what the current preserved railways are perpetuating. Maybe they are just acknowledging the right away from the guard though.
The older whistle/horn thread stated that noise nuisance was the reason for the current "fashion" for a single tone at foot crossings, but I agree that the two-tone horn distinguishes an approaching train from all other warnings, which is why I was astonished that it had been changed.
It was nice when out on the track to get a short acknowledgment toot in response to a waved arm too, looks as though that has disappeared - if it was ever official!

I still try to give a toot or at least a wave as I go by,problem with newer trains is even the low tone can be deafening and it's quite hard to give a old fashioned toot.

 

[Wst71Pa2]

Using two tone now at W boards

 

[theageofthetra]

They do. You just need to sign up to them on the members part of the website. But, as I pointed out above, most drivers dont take an interest in anything the union puts out inless its to do with pay and conditions. ASLEF publish a monthly magazine and the majority of guys dont even take it out the wrapper before they bin it.

Thanks- I didn't know you could do that.

 

[Glenmutchkin]

In Bombay (not sure about the rest of India), there is a constant sound of horns throughout the day as before the train moves away from the platform, the driver blasts the horn.

In my experience drivers on Indian long distance trains usually give a blast on the horn about 30 seconds before departure and another just before moving off. The first blast acts as a warning for those who have stepped down off the train.