Horrors

[LMS6202]

Watching Portillo's episode last night about London I was horrified to see what they have done to St Pancras Station. with this Eurostar stuff. I never liked Gilbert Scott's abomination fronting the great arch as it looks like an overblown Gothic public workhouse but the great arch over the platforms is wonderful. Now they have wrecked that also with the industrial estate unit at the country end. Same thing happened with Waterloo. A great wem stuck on the side of a rather pleasing station.

It's all rather like these folk who have an extension put on their house that is totally different from the original style and unsuited to the area in which both are built.. I have a neighbour who has had a large extension built onto his end block home in exactly the same style as the original and looks wonderful. At the other end HIS neighbour has had a box stuck on his place that looks like a bloody electrical substation.

 

[route:oxford]

Watching Portillo's episode last night about London I was horrified to see what they have done to St Pancras Station. with this Eurostar stuff. I never liked Gilbert Scott's abomination fronting the great arch as it looks like an overblown Gothic public workhouse but the great arch over the platforms is wonderful. Now they have wrecked that also with the industrial estate unit at the country end. Same thing happened with Waterloo. A great wem stuck on the side of a rather pleasing station.

Try having a look at

maps.google.co.uk

It shows in surprising detail how many ugly attachments there are hidden away behind the beautiful original buildings.

 

[Drsatan]

Still, it looks better than Kings Cross, which for the past 30 years has had to endure an undignified 'temporary' ticket office obscuring Lewis Cubitt's trainshed. Thankfully that's going to be demolished soon.

 

[Waddon]

I disagree about St. Pancras. True, the extension is not very beautiful but you can mostly ignore this by looking the other way, where the quality of the restoration of the original building is very high. Yes, I preferred it as a filthy soot stained cavern as it was in the eighties, but purely for nostalgic reasons. Realistically, how long could it be left in that state of disrepair and under-use? At least it has been saved for another generation, and who knows, when it next comes time for a refurb in 30 years, maybe the new shed will be swept away, much as is happening at Kings X.

p.s and if you hate whats been done to waterloo, you're going to hate what railtrack has got planned for the future... (underground concourse, platforms extended across the existing concourse...)

 

[Greenback]

I disagree about St. Pancras. True, the extension is not very beautiful but you can mostly ignore this by looking the other way, where the quality of the restoration of the original building is very high. Yes, I preferred it as a filthy soot stained cavern as it was in the eighties, but purely for nostalgic reasons. Realistically, how long could it be left in that state of disrepair and under-use? At least it has been saved for another generation, and who knows, when it next comes time for a refurb in 30 years, maybe the new shed will be swept away, much as is happening at Kings X.

p.s and if you hate whats been done to waterloo, you're going to hate what railtrack has got planned for the future... (underground concourse, platforms extended across the existing concourse...)

Who are railtrack?!!!

 

[LMS6202]

I disagree about St. Pancras. True, the extension is not very beautiful but you can mostly ignore this by looking the other way, where the quality of the restoration of the original building is very high. Yes, I preferred it as a filthy soot stained cavern as it was in the eighties, but purely for nostalgic reasons. Realistically, how long could it be left in that state of disrepair and under-use? At least it has been saved for another generation, and who knows, when it next comes time for a refurb in 30 years, maybe the new shed will be swept away, much as is happening at Kings X.

p.s and if you hate whats been done to waterloo, you're going to hate what railtrack has got planned for the future... (underground concourse, platforms extended across the existing concourse...)

No. I am in total agreement about the wonderful restoration of the arch. I just think that putting the big shed in front of it has ruined the place. Why could they have not put a modern arch the same size to complement the original?

 

[Crossforth]

Try having a look at

maps.google.co.uk

It shows in surprising detail how many ugly attachments there are hidden away behind the beautiful original buildings.

The building isn't finished on the satellite view. Shows how old the photo is

Still, it looks better than Kings Cross, which for the past 30 years has had to endure an undignified 'temporary' ticket office obscuring Lewis Cubitt's trainshed. Thankfully that's going to be demolished soon.

Sounds like NR are going to be having some fun with a wrecking ball in the centre of London

 

[Waddon]

Who are railtrack?!!!

Sorry, meant to say government rail quango thingy whatever they are called

 

[A60K]

The building isn't finished on the satellite view. Shows how old the photo is



Sounds like NR are going to be having some fun with a wrecking ball in the centre of London

Won't need a wrecking ball - the concourse building seems to be built out of a Meccano set, plasterboard, cardboard and glass. A guy equipped with a hammer, monkey wrench, screwdriver and chisel could probably take it to pieces in a weekend

It wasn't constructed with Victorian structural strength, shall we say.

 

[DJ_K666]

Sorry, meant to say government rail quango thingy whatever they are called

Notwork Rail

 

[Royston Vasey]

Try having a look at

maps.google.co.uk

It shows in surprising detail how many ugly attachments there are hidden away behind the beautiful original buildings.

Bit off-topic but Bing maps has an incredible aerial photo feature, stitched seamlessly in startling detail, which Google lacks. I took a virtual tour around the London terminals the other day and its amazing how lumpy and incoherent even the older sections are. Paddington's arch is actually a very strange asymmetric shape.

 

[mallard]

I know what you mean about St. Pancras. I particularly dislike the way that MML services have been evicted to the annexe, rather than being inside the main shed of the station that was, after all, built for the Midland Railway, not Eurostar.

It is clear, at least to me, that the refurbishment was about creating a premium station for Eurostar with domestic services very much an afterthought. Even the 1960s concrete monstrosity that is Euston is far less pretentious.

 

[mumrar]

It is clear, at least to me, that the refurbishment was about creating a premium station for Eurostar

Shock horror, priority was given to the msot technologically advanced railway in the UK, dedicated for high speed European services and fast commuter trains. I have a sneaky feeling that they did similar things at Heathrow. They totally disgregarded flights to Edinburgh, Birmingham and the Isle of Man in favour of those lah-di-dah continental flights!

Even the 1960s concrete monstrosity that is Euston is far less pretentious.

Hmm, where's Eustons magnificent archway again? Smashed to pieces. Yes, I wish they'd just destroyed the trainshed at St Pancras as soon as they decided Eurostars terminal building had to be nice, as it was what welcomed foreign travellers to London. We should have just built a six track box for them and left the grand old building for the domestic traffic with their lovely period 25Kv catenary, just how the Midland Railway would have wanted. I believe we call it progress and generally progress helps to make our lives better. St Pancras no longer has anywhere for a horse and cart to pull up, but that's because it doesn't need to. The MML is probably (and this will cause some debating) at the very best, the fifth most important line in to London after HS1, WCML, ECML and GWML (not necessarilly in that order) so why should it be treated as the jewel of the crown?

 

[mallard]

Shock horror, priority was given to the msot technologically advanced railway in the UK, dedicated for high speed European services and fast commuter trains. I have a sneaky feeling that they did similar things at Heathrow. They totally disgregarded flights to Edinburgh, Birmingham and the Isle of Man in favour of those lah-di-dah continental flights!

In terms of passenger numbers, who are the main users of St. Pancras? I'd wager that between EMT, FCC and SET, international travelers are very much secondary. Yet the design of the station is geared towards Eurostar at the expense of all others. If you want to mention Heathrow, let's not forget that T5 has lead to less crowding at the other terminals, resulting in an improved experience for all, whereas St. Pancras has resulted in a poorer experience for MML travelers.

Hmm, where's Eustons magnificent archway again? Smashed to pieces. Yes, I wish they'd just destroyed the trainshed at St Pancras as soon as they decided Eurostars terminal building had to be nice, as it was what welcomed foreign travellers to London. We should have just built a six track box for them and left the grand old building for the domestic traffic with their lovely period 25Kv catenary, just how the Midland Railway would have wanted. I believe we call it progress and generally progress helps to make our lives better. St Pancras no longer has anywhere for a horse and cart to pull up, but that's because it doesn't need to. The MML is probably (and this will cause some debating) at the very best, the fifth most important line in to London after HS1, WCML, ECML and GWML (not necessarilly in that order) so why should it be treated as the jewel of the crown?

I did describe Euston as a "monstrosity"! It definitely wins no awards for aesthetics or heritage, but if you want to catch a train it's certianly more functional than St. Pancras.

E.g. Say I have a few minutes to wait and I want to grab a bite to eat. At Euston I can grab something from Burger King on the main concourse, while at St. Pancras I have to wander around what is basically a shopping centre vainly looking for something that isn't a sushi restaurant, champagne bar or coffee house and probably end up having to spend twice as much.

That's not to mention the "long drag" that is getting from the tube to the MML platforms with luggage or the even worse siting of the SET platforms. Oh, and how the great arch seems to magnify the screech of Eurostar mechanical brakes or the general state (both inside and outside) of those 15+ year old trains...

I saw the "800 million pound station" documentary, quite interesting really, but it was clear that the designers of the station had lost sight of the fact that they were designing a railway station, i.e. a place to catch trains. They were constantly talking about how they wanted to design a "destination station" with gimmicks like the "world's longest champagne bar" (what are they going to do when someone builds a longer one? turn all the seats 90 degrees and call it the world's widest?), as if people would go there with no intention of catching a train! (Enthusiasts excepted of course!)

 

[jopsuk]

I do wonder if, admittedly at probably more expense, a new station could have been created over Pancras Road, between St Pancras and Kings Cross, for the International services, allowing the Midland (and perhaps the HS domestic) services into the main trainshed.
Even just get rid of that stretch of Pancras Road?
Could even have done something clever stratening up (and lenghtening?) the Kings Cross Local Platforms. Four train sheds side by side- the existing St P, the existing KX (with the concrete nasty removed) and two elegant new sheds- International and GN Local.

 

[royaloak]

I do wonder if, admittedly at probably more expense, a new station could have been created over Pancras Road, between St Pancras and Kings Cross, for the International services, allowing the Midland (and perhaps the HS domestic) services into the main trainshed.

Would have cost 10p more so a definitely a no go because everything in this country has to be done as cheaply as possible even though it will cost a lot more in the long term, but hey sod tomorrow as long as the books balance today!

 

[starrymarkb]

No. I am in total agreement about the wonderful restoration of the arch. I just think that putting the big shed in front of it has ruined the place. Why could they have not put a modern arch the same size to complement the original?

Because they were not allowed to, the arch is listed and a condition of the planning permission for the rebuild was that any extension was to be no higher then the bottom of glass front to the arch...

 

[Daimler]

E.g. Say I have a few minutes to wait and I want to grab a bite to eat. At Euston I can grab something from Burger King on the main concourse, while at St. Pancras I have to wander around what is basically a shopping centre vainly looking for something that isn't a sushi restaurant, champagne bar or coffee house and probably end up having to spend twice as much.

That's not to mention the "long drag" that is getting from the tube to the MML platforms with luggage or the even worse siting of the SET platforms. Oh, and how the great arch seems to magnify the screech of Eurostar mechanical brakes or the general state (both inside and outside) of those 15+ year old trains...

I saw the "800 million pound station" documentary, quite interesting really, but it was clear that the designers of the station had lost sight of the fact that they were designing a railway station, i.e. a place to catch trains. They were constantly talking about how they wanted to design a "destination station" with gimmicks like the "world's longest champagne bar" (what are they going to do when someone builds a longer one? turn all the seats 90 degrees and call it the world's widest?), as if people would go there with no intention of catching a train! (Enthusiasts excepted of course!)

Hmm...I think you're wronging the designers. I go to St. Pancras on a regular basis, and the posh restaurants, champagne bar, etc. are regularly full to bursting. I think a fair number of people do go there without catching a train - and aren't enthusiasts. Of course, many of those enjoying the facilities provided are travellers, and I have to say they look like they're enjoying themselves a good deal more than the sorry lot down at Euston, glumly tucking into a paper bag of chips and styrofoam cup of coffee while vainly looking for an agreeable place to sit and wait. I agree that St. Pancras is lacking in a couple of cheaper food places, but it's a pleasant place to be.

Also, since the new underground ticket hall opened at the north end of the station, Thameslink and EMT (and especially SE) passengers have a far more convenient walk than before - indeed, perhaps even a shorter walk than the so-spoiled Eurostar passengers, whose check-in area is midway between the two underground entrances.

I agree about the injustice of shunting the Midland into the new (and very unattractive) bit though...it is their station really! But then again, the flagship line deserves the flagship station, I guess...

 

[EM2]

I know what you mean about St. Pancras. I particularly dislike the way that MML services have been evicted to the annexe, rather than being inside the main shed of the station that was, after all, built for the Midland Railway, not Eurostar.

The station has to be as long as it is to accommodate Eurostars, so if EMT was in the Barlow Shed, there'd be 4 x 200m of plain track after the end of the platforms. What would be the point? It's just spending money for no reason.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

E.g. Say I have a few minutes to wait and I want to grab a bite to eat. At Euston I can grab something from Burger King on the main concourse, while at St. Pancras I have to wander around what is basically a shopping centre vainly looking for something that isn't a sushi restaurant, champagne bar or coffee house and probably end up having to spend twice as much.

Boots? Two branches of M&S? Three branches of WH Smith? All do sandwiches, crisps, chocolate, sweets and drinks.
West Cornwall Pasty Co? They do pasties (obviously), wedges, bacon rolls and cold & hot drinks.

 

[williamn]

I have various problems with the design of St P but I think the way the trainshed was extended is actually quite good. It's plain, simple and doesn't compete with the original, and makes it quite clear what is old and what is new. To do some modern pastiche of the original would have been worse in my opinion.

 

[moonrakerz]

I was horrified to see what they have done to St Pancras Station

I went to St Pancras on Saturday (first time for years) to meet my daughter coming up from Rochester - it is awful !

Is it actually a railway station any more ? All I could find was vast numbers of shops. I asked several members of staff where the new high speed trains from Rochester came in - no one could tell me !
Plenty of departure boards; couldn't see an arrivals board anywhere which might have given me a clue.

 

[Vulcan]

This seems rather crazy to me, a station is restored back to its intended magnificence and glory, and the users of railuk forums just complain about it?
Surely there are much more deserving stations where moaning and complaint would be more appropriate. Kings Cross has been mentioned but what about Manchester Victoria, the station without a soul? Edinburgh Waverly, the maze of a station with its illogical platform numbering? Birmingham New Street, enough said?

 

[EM2]

I went to St Pancras on Saturday (first time for years) to meet my daughter coming up from Rochester - it is awful !

Is it actually a railway station any more ? All I could find was vast numbers of shops. I asked several members of staff where the new high speed trains from Rochester came in - no one could tell me !
Plenty of departure boards; couldn't see an arrivals board anywhere which might have given me a clue.

Which direction did you come into the station from?

 

[Mojo]

If using the new ticket hall for the tube it drops you off right outside the Southeastern Highspeed platforms and it's not too much further to the FCC and EMT platforms.

 

[moonrakerz]

Which direction did you come into the station from?

We came in from the "side" entrance in front of KX - where we got off the bus from Paddington.
After we met up with my daughter, it appears that we should have gone down into the bowels of the station - we didn't because there just appeared to be just ten thousand people queuing for tube tickets down there !

We'll wait outside next time

 

[asylumxl]

I've been using it for a large chunk of my life so far, and I can say it's not a monstrosity and it was very refreshing to see it revived the way it was and I have no complaints.

 

[EM2]

We came in from the "side" entrance in front of KX - where we got off the bus from Paddington.
After we met up with my daughter, it appears that we should have gone down into the bowels of the station - we didn't because there just appeared to be just ten thousand people queuing for tube tickets down there !

We'll wait outside next time

Do you mean the Underground entrance on the corner? Or the entrance by The Gymnasium on Pancras Road?
I can't quite see what you mean by 'the bowels of the station'. There's nowhere that sells Tube tickets at St.P but there are two Tube ticket halls below street level.
And there's no need to go down there for a National Rail train...

 

[poshbakerloo]

The restoration of the old station is pretty amazing! But the new bit is pretty uninspiring! I'm sure they could have done more...

 

[Waddon]

I think the station has some issues (bad signage being an important one), but firstly the complex is still not finished yet, and being an essentially brand new station there will be certain bits which won't work correctly yet. When the new Kings Cross complex opens next door I think it will be a fantastic transport interchange.

I bet Euston didn't work perfectly the moment it was opened (It still doesn't if you ask me)

Plus, you can't really blame the new station for the walk from the tube tunnels as the tube tunnels haven't moved from where they were built 50/100years ago! - you can't really expect someone to spend literally billions of pounds moving the whole tube station just to save you two minutes walk!

Personally, I do think the East Midlands platforms are a bit isolated and poorly equipped, but at the time the station was rebuilt, there were no plans to electrify the Midland mainline, and it's quite clear that the design was for a modern electric station, hence the midland lines being stuck outside the central arch. Whether that was for the benefit of keeping those in the champagne bar from choking on diesel fumes or not is a matter for debate....

 

[Wyvern]

I must say I was upset to see what is supposed to be a railway station turned into a shopping centre.

However if the builders had not been able to make money to revoer the cost it would never have been done.

Perhaps when there's a bit of money to spare they could put in a moving walkway to the tube station.

One point is that, for anyone travelling from the Midlands to the Brighton line, the preferred ticket option is via STP (indeed EMT offer a cheaper rate "by FCC " rather than "Any permitted") But there are no signs from the EMT platforms to the FCC ones. You have to know that you make a 180 degree turn at the bottom of the escalator.