How are alterations planned for line closures?

[MichaelAMW]

I ask this question as a result of being told about this train yesterday:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C80848/2015/03/28/advanced

It's the 05.10 Nottingham - Spalding, which goes via Grantham and Peterborough, where it reverses. It seems it left on time but was then turned back fairly quickly, being told by the signaller that the ECML was closed. It later ran via Oakham and reached Peterborough 39 late.

It is apparent, from looking at Real Time Trains, that this was the only service booked to run along the ECML that day (apart from some Q paths) - the east coast mainline services were diverted via Lincoln or replaced by buses and the Liverpool - Norwich service ran in two portions, splitting at Nottingham and going via Oakham. The 05.10 was somehow forgotten, I imagine as it was a one-off service, and was not retimed. It is perhaps surprising that the anomoly wasn't noticed.

So, with this just as an example. i.e. I'm not criticising this particular event, how is the planning actually done when lines are blocked, and what are the limitations that can lead to trains being missed?

 

[CyrusWuff]

The short answer is "human error". Even though Network Rail are supposed to validate schedules prior to signing them off, you occasionally get situations where a train is booked to run straight through a possession, umpteen conflicting moves (usually avoidable), "ambitious" hand backs (e.g. possession due to be given up at 0500, first train at 0503 kind of thing) and such like.

Train Planners are, after all, only human and things can get overlooked...

 

[sarahj]

Yes, mistakes can and do happen. One tonight. West coast services from Brighton.
22.45 All stations to Chichester
00.10 Hove.


A 1.25 gap on the timetable. Some buses had to be found to run a all stations bus to Worthing at 23.30 and 00.10 (as there was also nothing for the 00.10 to Hove to connect to)

 

[Yabbadabba]

We have met the timetable planners that work on the tt that effect us and we have the same conversations time after time, 1) why do we have trains timetabed to run the total possessions, 2) why do we have trains tt to use non existent points to crossover various layouts and 3) why do you still tt every train through one set of crossovers when there are alternatives. I have no doubt that the next time they come out of their office on a jolly to see us the same issues will be raised again.

 

[55018ballymoss]

The usual problem with possessions and engineering trains comes from the fact that the times for most of the engineering trains are not validated, and can end up with a number of schedule conflicts as they get in the way of the timetabled services.
However, this is a good one, and yes, probably missed due to the fact it is the only train of the day with this origin and destination...

 

[ADRboy]

Train planning is witchcraft. Even a simple possession takes a huge amount of planning for the TOC/NR.

 

[CockneySparrow]

I ask this question as a result of being told about this train yesterday:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C80848/2015/03/28/advanced

It's the 05.10 Nottingham - Spalding, which goes via Grantham and Peterborough, where it reverses. It seems it left on time but was then turned back fairly quickly, being told by the signaller that the ECML was closed. It later ran via Oakham and reached Peterborough 39 late.

It is apparent, from looking at Real Time Trains, that this was the only service booked to run along the ECML that day (apart from some Q paths) - the east coast mainline services were diverted via Lincoln or replaced by buses and the Liverpool - Norwich service ran in two portions, splitting at Nottingham and going via Oakham. The 05.10 was somehow forgotten, I imagine as it was a one-off service, and was not retimed. It is perhaps surprising that the anomoly wasn't noticed.

So, with this just as an example. i.e. I'm not criticising this particular event, how is the planning actually done when lines are blocked, and what are the limitations that can lead to trains being missed?

The 5:10 from Nottingham to Norwich already runs through Oakham so there is no need to change the times as they are correct

 

[Tomnick]

The 5:10 from Nottingham to Norwich already runs through Oakham so there is no need to change the times as they are correct

2E01 is the 05.10 to Spalding, which isn't normally booked via Oakham. 1L01 (04.56 to Norwich) and 1L02 (06.10 to Norwich) might be the ones that you're thinking of. They did, at least, manage to correctly plan the alteration to 2E01 on the few Saturdays prior to this!