How can the industry lower its costs?

[NSEFAN]

Ok, I see why longer trains are needed.

So based on what you guys are saying the railways are doing as good as they can right now? I find that hard to believe.

You could probably squeeze in more trains on the current WCML by using in-cab signalling. However, this was tried in the past when the line was last upgraded. It caused nearly a decade of disruption to the route and had to be downgraded to conventional signalling because project costs were spiralling out of control. (Originally £2 billion, ended up at nearer £10 billion for a scaled-back programme).

Whilst £32 billion sounds like a lot, bear in mind that it will be for the entire route from London to Manchester and Leeds over the course of 20 years, as well as the fleets of trains which will use the line.

Of course, the current lines which will feed HS2 shouldn't be forgotten. I personally would like to see more reopenings and improvements happening alongside to encourage more people out of their cars. If you look at Network Rail's plans for Control Period 5 (2014-2019), you find a long list of improvements all over the country. These will happen regardless of HS2.

 

[jon0844]

Ok, I see why longer trains are needed.

So based on what you guys are saying the railways are doing as good as they can right now? I find that hard to believe.

I don't frequently use the train and when I do its usually for pleasure. I'm an enthusiast not a regular commuter or anything like that.

I preferred BR days to this era. Perhaps my rose tinted glasses are giving me the wrong perspective on things.

Might I suggest you try using the WCML during peak hours and see if your opinion changes from an occasional off-peak leisure only travel perspective. I'd guess that on a Sunday morning, for example, the WCML isn't to capacity!

As for the argument that people won't pay more to go high-speed, especially skipping stops, but rather pay less to go the old way - wouldn't that mean most people avoid the expensive railway and go by coach? That sounds logical, but I think many people WILL pay a bit more to save an hour or more on their journey and travel on a bigger and more comfortable train, along a newer (and likely much smoother) track etc.

Advance tickets would almost certainly still be available, so if HS2 isn't heavily used to begin with, chances are there would be cheaper tickets available than the 'classic' line! Nobody will want to be moving fresh air around.

Other things to note; the money for HS2 (spread over around 15-20 years isn't that much anyway) won't stop other lines being upgraded, as is already happening. Secondly, when HS2 is finished it will relieve the WCML (and other lines) of services that will allow the local stations along the line to enjoy more services - currently cut back to allow more fast trains to go through. Therefore those people away from HS2 will benefit too. We all will.

We invented the railways and it's interesting to learn about history and how the railways were initially feared and seen as evil.. then despite having had them for so long, we now have people who are painting such a negative picture of them all over again. I'm not against road building for what it's worth (far from it) but rail is a fantastic way to take off pressure from our busy road network. And railway lines aren't as polluting, or noisy, or as big, as new motorways and bypasses.

Now, if we want to stop building anything then we better find a way to start reducing our population!

 

[swt_passenger]

You could probably squeeze in more trains on the current WCML by using in-cab signalling. However, this was tried in the past when the line was last upgraded...

It never really got to the stage of being physically 'tried' though, did it? I thought they got cold feet as soon as they realised the costs involved...

 

[PR1Berske]

Ok, I see why longer trains are needed.

So based on what you guys are saying the railways are doing as good as they can right now? I find that hard to believe.

I don't frequently use the train and when I do its usually for pleasure. I'm an enthusiast not a regular commuter or anything like that.

I preferred BR days to this era. Perhaps my rose tinted glasses are giving me the wrong perspective on things.

The railways are doing a very good job at the moment - record passenger numbers, much more modern and attractive stock, greater expectation of good customer service, far better and proactive information to customers, better punctuation and all the rest of it.

We are trying to get ourselves away from the longest, deepest recession in peace times. To even consider that the solution to our economic woes is to nationalise the railways is utter bobbins of the highest order.

 

[Manchester77]

I reckon ERTMS might get a few more trains on WCML but it still wouldnt make that much of a difference. A new line is needed, I think thats a fact.

 

[yorksrob]

I just hope they've got their sums right.

Bearing in mind the troubles we have now trying to find a national consensus on how much the railway as a whole should cost, how sure are we that both the new line will cover its costs (i.e. passenger growth will be enough to cover the finance and fulfill the business model) and the classic routes will continue to be relatively profitable, even when their flagship InterCity type services are removed. I know that passenger numbers have been growing in recent years, but that is a hell of a lot of growth we are expecting, and will it generate enough money.

The last thing I would want is a situation as appears to be the case in France where the money goes towards keeping the flagship service going whilst the rest of the network withers on the vine.