How could Lumo expand/develop/improve?

[Failed Unit]

I did actually wonder about that - I couldn't remember if they had 'last mile' diesels or not.

Definately just battery, but I am not sure if they can move far or if they is just to keep the lights on so to speak. I am not sure for example if the power failed, if the batteries would have enough to get them to the next station.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I did actually wonder about that - I couldn't remember if they had 'last mile' diesels or not.

Unfortunately not, and they've shouted so much about being more environmentally friendly (implication: than LNER) that fitting them would be a massive climbdown. A very poor decision in my view - one done to justify a saving of the money on fitment and maintenance, no doubt, but one that has tarnished their reputation somewhat when they've had to cancel and LNER has just happily turned on the dead dinosaur engines and diverted.

As it's reasonably likely some of those who couldn't travel due to this would instead have flown or driven, then that's greenwashing of the highest order (and dishonest, as it carried an implication that LNER were running round on diesel the whole time which they obviously aren't).

Definately just battery, but I am not sure if they can move far or if they is just to keep the lights on so to speak. I am not sure for example if the power failed, if the batteries would have enough to get them to the next station.

I'm almost certain I read it was just for hotel power and couldn't be used for traction.

 

[najaB]

Since they're 80Xs, I presume the spaces where the engine rafts would go are still there. Does anyone know if Hitachi have worked out if battery packs could go in there instead?

 

[YorkRailFan]

Though as EMUs their diversionary options are quite limited which is quite obvious as they often have to thrown the towel in whilst LNER, GC and HT are able to scrabble something together.

GC frequently throws in the towel when there's engineering works at KGX though.

 

[ainsworth74]

Definately just battery, but I am not sure if they can move far or if they is just to keep the lights on so to speak. I am not sure for example if the power failed, if the batteries would have enough to get them to the next station.

I'm almost certain I read it was just for hotel power and couldn't be used for traction.

Yep the battery just provides power for onboard systems in the event that they lose line power. It's not for traction. Effectively doing a similar job to the engine on an 801 which, whilst capable of moving the train, is mostly about ensuring onboard power remains available.

GC frequently throws in the towel when there's engineering works at KGX though.

Yes I am aware, but Lumo at least tend to try and run a shuttle between at least Edinburgh and Newcastle, unlike GC who just don't bother running anything. The main issue is for unplanned issues. If the wires come down at Retford, Lumo are stuffed whilst LNER, GC and HT will divert at least some trains via Lincoln for instance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To be fair I'm not sure I'd use "Grand Cancel" as an example of anything, really (unless they're what Lumo are aiming at about diesel, but they aren't really in much direct competition anyway). GC is such a poor quality operation that I wouldn't put any excuse past them. I'm not a great fan of Lumo as a passenger (see my trip report on them a while back), but they do at least seem to do what they're aiming to do vaguely well-ish (though I do think they could make more of the low-cost model).

 

[Failed Unit]

If I recall they have also diverted via Lincoln in the past (with a Hull trians unit towing) - But that can't be done without a put of planning. If I remember correctly they joined at Doncaster.

 

[ainsworth74]

To be fair I'm not sure I'd use "Grand Cancel" as an example of anything, really (unless they're what Lumo are aiming at about diesel, but they aren't really in much direct competition anyway). GC is such a poor quality operation that I wouldn't put any excuse past them. I'm not a great fan of Lumo as a passenger (see my trip report on them a while back), but they do at least seem to do what they're aiming to do vaguely well-ish (though I do think they could make more of the low-cost model).

Quite! I would say more about my feelings on GC but this is a thread about Lumo so probably best to leave it there

If I recall they have also diverted via Lincoln in the past (with a Hull trians unit towing) - But that can't be done without a put of planning. If I remember correctly they joined at Doncaster.

I can recall they tried to do it whereby they dropped off passengers at Doncaster and a HT 10-car picked them up for the run to Kings Cross (and vice versa going the other way) but they've only tried it once, I think, and certainly the last few blocks have seen nothing particularly interesting from Lumo. It seems to me that they've perhaps given up on trying to do things alongside HT.

 

[A S Leib]

HT will divert at least some trains via Lincoln for instance.

I thought Hull Trains generally sends at least one or two trains per day via Sheffield to St. Pancras during engineering work.

 

[ainsworth74]

I thought Hull Trains generally sends at least one or two trains per day via Sheffield to St. Pancras during engineering work.

If the wires are down at Retford, as per my example, why would they go to St Pancras? I mean you're right, they do go to St Pancras when Kings Cross isn't available due to engineering work (I travelled on one the other week!), but that wasn't the example I was considering...

 

[CarrotPie]

I'm almost certain I read it was just for hotel power and couldn't be used for traction.

That is correct.

Perhaps if engineering work is known about in advance, HT could loan them an 802?

 

[Kentp]

Cut-price train operator Lumo plans to extend London-Edinburgh services further into Scotland

Proposal comes despite rival LNER axing its last services on route

www.scotsman.com

I guess they decided this was the best way.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Cut-price train operator Lumo plans to extend London-Edinburgh services further into Scotland

Proposal comes despite rival LNER axing its last services on route

www.scotsman.com

I guess they decided this was the best way.

Behind a pay wall unfortunately

 

[YorkRailFan]

Lumo Expands: Cut-Price Rail Service to Connect Glasgow with London and Edinburgh
Lumo, the budget rail service, is extending its reach to Glasgow, aiming to connect Scotland's major cities with London. Explore the strategic expansion, collaborations, and market growth driving this move towards more affordable and sustainable travel options.Lumo, the budget rail service known for its affordable travel options, is set to broaden its horizons by extending its services to Glasgow, aiming to bridge the gap between Scotland's largest cities and London. Since its inception in 2021, Lumo has significantly increased its daily trips between London and Edinburgh from two to five, with plans for further expansion by next summer. This move comes at a time when Lumo's main competitor, LNER, considers discontinuing its Glasgow-Edinburgh-London service, positioning Lumo to potentially capture a wider audience seeking budget-friendly travel options.Strategic Expansion Amid Competitive Pressures
Despite the longer journey time on the east coast main line compared to Avanti's west coast route, Lumo aims to lure passengers with enticingly lower fares, boasting an average ticket price of £46.70. This strategy not only seeks to undercut its rivals but also to tap into a growing demand for more economical travel alternatives. With a significant portion of its passengers reportedly continuing their journey to Glasgow, Lumo's decision to extend services is both a response to customer behavior and a strategic move to fill the void left by other operators.Lumo's aspirations for expansion are not without their challenges. Collaborating closely with Transport Scotland and Network Rail, the company is navigating the complexities of route planning and regulatory approval. The Office of Rail and Road stands as the next hurdle in Lumo's path, with discussions ongoing regarding the potential routes, including the less congested option via Carstairs. This careful planning underscores Lumo's commitment to complementing, rather than competing with, existing services, with the broader aim of attracting new passengers from road and air travel sectors.Market Growth and Future Plans
In its quest to redefine budget travel across the UK, Lumo is not just focusing on competitive pricing but also on the quality of service and connectivity. By targeting a diverse demographic, including those previously reliant on road and air travel, Lumo is poised to not only expand its service offering but also to grow the market itself. The anticipated introduction of more trains next summer marks a significant milestone in Lumo's journey, potentially reshaping travel dynamics between Scotland's major cities and the English capital.As Lumo gears up for its Glasgow expansion, the implications for the UK's rail industry and passenger choices are profound. This strategic move not only demonstrates Lumo's ambitious vision but also highlights the growing importance of affordable, accessible, and sustainable travel options in today's society. As the landscape of UK rail travel continues to evolve, Lumo's expansion could well be a harbinger of more inclusive and competitive travel options for passengers nationwide.

Lumo Expands: Cut-Price Rail Service to Connect Glasgow with London and Edinburgh

Discover how Lumo, the budget rail service, is broadening its reach to Glasgow, offering affordable travel options between Scotland's largest cities and London. Learn about the strategic expansion, collaborations, and market growth driving this move.

bnnbreaking.com

Found an article that isn't paywalled. This could further justify LNER's suspension of Glasgow services, but is positive news for the likes of Newcastle. Just wish Lumo stopped at York or Doncaster to provide either with a better Glasgow service.

 

[najaB]

Just wish Lumo stopped at York or Doncaster to provide either with a better Glasgow service.

At which point Lumo becomes "Blue LNER".

They have to demonstrate a significantly different service offering or else they're just abstractive from the main operator on the route.

 

[Bletchleyite]

At which point Lumo becomes "Blue LNER".

They have to demonstrate a significantly different service offering or else they're just abstractive from the main operator on the route.

Arguably they already do primarily abstract - all other OAOs at least have one destination that doesn't have a direct service to London on their route. Certainly when I've used them (OK, only once, but it might happen again in May) it's been them or LNER/Avanti.

I think DaFT are seeing them as an experiment into the benefits and pitfalls of true competition, i.e. not considering abstraction.

 

[BlueLeanie]

So how long a train can Glasgow Queen Street (low level) take?

It would be quite a boost for West Lothian if they got a direct connection with London.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Lumo Expands: Cut-Price Rail Service to Connect Glasgow with London and Edinburgh

Discover how Lumo, the budget rail service, is broadening its reach to Glasgow, offering affordable travel options between Scotland's largest cities and London. Learn about the strategic expansion, collaborations, and market growth driving this move.

bnnbreaking.com

Found an article that isn't paywalled. This could further justify LNER's suspension of Glasgow services, but is positive news for the likes of Newcastle. Just wish Lumo stopped at York or Doncaster to provide either with a better Glasgow service.

Also remember CrossCountry are not running to Glasgow every two hours anymore much less now (how many is it?)

 

[tiptoptaff]

Could argue Donny-Glasgow and NCL-Glasgow aren't abstractive as there's currently no regular direct services

 

[YorkRailFan]

Also remember CrossCountry are not running to Glasgow every two hours anymore much less now (how many is it?)

I believe 1 or 2 a day.

 

[najaB]

Could argue Donny-Glasgow and NCL-Glasgow aren't abstractive as there's currently no regular direct services

So then, would the Doncaster or Newcastle services skip Edinburgh?

If not it's just another Doncaster/Newcastle to Edinburgh service that'll carry mainly empty seats between Edinburgh and Glasgow.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If not it's just another Doncaster/Newcastle to Edinburgh service that'll carry mainly empty seats between Edinburgh and Glasgow.

Will it, though? If they offer very good fares from Glasgow to Kings Cross it might well compete effectively with Avanti which can be a bit expensive (not LNER-expensive, but not necessarily that cheap). I don't think there would be much market for non-London journeys, though.

Having said that Avanti can fairly easily whack them back by dropping Advances on the via Birmingham services which can already be very cheap.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Will it, though? If they offer very good fares from Glasgow to Kings Cross it might well compete effectively with Avanti which can be a bit expensive (not LNER-expensive, but not necessarily that cheap). I don't think there would be much market for non-London journeys, though.

Having said that Avanti can fairly easily whack them back by dropping Advances on the via Birmingham services which can already be very cheap.

True, although the removal of off peak fares on LNER hasn't been extended to Glasgow and with LNER planning to remove their Glasgow service, likely never will be extended to Glasgow anyway.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The risk with an Edinburgh call on the Glasgow service would be that they simply prioritize passengers for Edinburgh over all else and passengers for Glasgow either find the train full or find themselves standing for a long journey, cross country levels are overcrowding are commonplace when I have used any of their services so this is a consideration I would have thought b

 

[hux385]

I think this would be great if Lumo were to extend to Glasgow. I think they would need to get some additional units, in an ideal world I'd love to have 10 car services running GLC-KGX every 2 hours. I think I'm being overly optimistic though.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

I think this would be great if Lumo were to extend to Glasgow. I think they would need to get some additional units, in an ideal world I'd love to have 10 car services running GLC-KGX every 2 hours. I think I'm being overly optimistic though.

I can see 10 cars being needed in the future due to high demand but two hourly might not happen due to capacity issues north of York and Newcastle to Edinburgh

 

[hux385]

I can see 10 cars being needed in the future due to high demand but two hourly might not happen due to capacity issues north of York and Newcastle to Edinburgh

Currently 2-hourly would not be possible, however, there is talk in the Dec 2024 ECML recast that the TPE Newcastle-Edinburgh stoppers will be going to a consistent 2 hourly pattern, so this was my thinking in Lumo being able to gain better paths too. I guess there's a lot going on behind the scenes that we can only speculate on for now

 

[dk1]

Currently 2-hourly would not be possible, however, there is talk in the Dec 2024 ECML recast that the TPE Newcastle-Edinburgh stoppers will be going to a consistent 2 hourly pattern, so this was my thinking in Lumo being able to gain better paths too. I guess there's a lot going on behind the scenes that we can only speculate on for now

Would be very good news if TPE services went to a fixed regular pattern for most of the day.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Currently 2-hourly would not be possible, however, there is talk in the Dec 2024 ECML recast that the TPE Newcastle-Edinburgh stoppers will be going to a consistent 2 hourly pattern, so this was my thinking in Lumo being able to gain better paths too. I guess there's a lot going on behind the scenes that we can only speculate on for now

2 hourly TPE has been confirmed i think by TPE publically but we'll wait and see on that.
How many more services could Lumo fit in to Edinburgh

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There are bound to be competition issues with Lumo (ie First Group) serving London-Glasgow against Avanti (First Group with Trenitalia).
I could see them not going to Glasgow Central for that reason, but the other routes are pretty full.
Scotrail won't want competition on Edinburgh-Glasgow either.
What's really needed is a Lumo-style operator (but different owner) on London-Glasgow via the WCML.