How could the Copy Pit line be upgraded?

[Starmill]

Mod Note: Posts #1 - #4 originally in this thread.

Since the 2018 resignalling of the Calder Valley Line East of Hebden Bridge, substantial stretches between there and Bradford Interchange now permit 75-80 mph for multiple unit trains. Not sure how that would help with Anglo-Scottish diversions though!

Because you can't upgrade a route purely to provide diversionary capability, but you can do if there's potential for the development or enhancement of a permanent service. There is no scope for upgrading the S&C or Bentham lines in the conventional railway sense, though they may work well as tourist operations. As you say Hebden Bridge to York via Dewsbury is already reasonably fast and in reasonably good condition, not something that can be said for the route between Hebden Bridge and Preston via Accrington.

 

[Flying Claret]

Because you can't upgrade a route purely to provide diversionary capability, but you can do if there's potential for the development or enhancement of a permanent service. There is no scope for upgrading the S&C or Bentham lines in the conventional railway sense, though they may work well as tourist operations. As you say Hebden Bridge to York via Dewsbury is already reasonably fast and in reasonably good condition, not something that can be said for the route between Hebden Bridge and Preston via Accrington.

Yep. Its certainly a plod on the 9 miles or so from Todmorden to burnley through the valley.. I'm not sure how much of that is down to poor track and signals or just the fact it's a very bendy route...

 

[D6130]

Yep. Its certainly a plod on the 9 miles or so from Todmorden to burnley through the valley.. I'm not sure how much of that is down to poor track and signals or just the fact it's a very bendy route...

It's partly due to the steep gradients and sharp curves....and partly due to the unstable nature of the local geology, caused partially by the presence of old uncharted coal drift mines in the Cliviger Gorge and partially by the presence of a major fault line. The maximum permitted speed for passenger trains is 45 mph from Gannow Junction to Copy Pit Summit and 40 from there to Stansfield Hall Junction, while freight trains are limited to 25mph throughout. Add to that the 20mph sighting restriction for all trains either side of Portsmouth Level Crossing and the further 20mph restriction for nearly a mile of the Down Line between Cornholme and Lydgate Viaduct due to the unstable hillside and you have a very slow plod indeed! At least the long-standing 20mph limit on both lines through Holme Tunnel has now been lifted.

 

[Starmill]

It's partly due to the steep gradients and sharp curves....and partly due to the unstable nature of the local geology, caused partially by the presence of old uncharted coal drift mines in the Cliviger Gorge and partially by the presence of a major fault line. The maximum permitted speed for passenger trains is 45 mph from Gannow Junction to Copy Pit Summit and 40 from there to Stansfield Hall Junction, while freight trains are limited to 25mph throughout. Add to that the 20mph sighting restriction for all trains either side of Portsmouth Level Crossing and the further 20mph restriction for nearly a mile of the Down Line between Cornholme and Lydgate Viaduct due to the unstable hillside and you have a very slow plod indeed! At least the long-satnding 20mph limit on both lines through Holme Tunnel has now been lifted.

Indeed. It's a tricky area. There's also the difficulty of the viaduct in Accrington.

Generally 75 miles / hour throughout would be a very big improvement. But in reality, just too much to hope for. Trying to remidiate old mineworkings is a nightmare.

 

[D6130]

Between Rose Grove and Bamber Bridge the East Lancs line is 70 mph throughout, with the exception of the very severe 10mph permanent restriction round the curve at Accrington, a short length of 60 near Rishton and 40/50 through Blackburn and Mill Hill. With some alteration to the signalling, it may be possible to raise the limit for multiple units to 75 or even 80, as has happened further East between Hebden Bridge and Milner Royd Junction - but the 'fast' sections would still be fairly short and probably not worth the expenditure for the minimal time savings involved. With regard to the actual Copy Pit line itself, from Gannow Junction to Hall Royd Junction and Todmorden, given the physical constraints of the route mentioned upthread, I don't think there's a lot that can be done. Another problem which I neglected to mention in my earlier post is the condition of Lydgate Viaduct, the Westernmost arch of which has had a pronounced upward distortion for many years, as a result of its anchorage to the 'moving hillside' between there and Cornholme. A long time ago, that arch was strapped together with old rails and within the last two-three years Network Rail have strengthened it with a discreet concrete insert - for which they had to obtain listed building planning consent. However there is still a noticeable bump when you pass over it and despite the recent works I don't think the 20mph restriction will be lifted anytime soon. However, looking on the positive side, it's a very scenic little stretch of line - a bit like a mini-S & C, but with steeper gradients and sharper curves - and at 749 feet above sea level, Copy Pit Summit is the second-highest trans-Pennine rail summit after Ais Gill and offers excellent photographic opportunities in good weather. i would recommend a trip over the line to anyone who has not yet done so.

 

[Flying Claret]

Thanks for the info guys, really informative. It looks as though little can be done with that section, not that it's a major issue in terms of journey time. However I do think there could be demand for trains half-hourly, as its still a transpennine route.

 

[yorksrob]

4 carriage trains and a buffet trolley service.

 

[D6130]

However I do think there could be demand for trains half-hourly, as its still a transpennine route.

Technically speaking, it is half-hourly....there are reasonably good connections at Todmorden from the Blackburn-Southport trains - when they are running - into and out of the Manchester-Leeds and vv services.

4 carriage trains and a buffet trolley service.

....with bottles of real ale from the excellent Eagles Crag Brewery just across the road from Lydgate Viaduct? (I'm not a shareholder....but a loyal customer!).

 

[Starmill]

I haven't been along the route between Hebden Bridge and Preston for many months now and I wasn't aware of changes and application for consent at Lydgate Viaduct. Interesting story.

I think that the Holme Tunnel work some years ago is instructive really, the remediation to stabilise it took a full block of the line lasting many months. Despite that there wasn't the value for money, or indeed the confidence, to go up even to 45 miles / hour!

 

[yorksrob]

Technically speaking, it is half-hourly....there are reasonably good connections at Todmorden from the Blackburn-Southport trains - when they are running - into and out of the Manchester-Leeds and vv services.

....with bottles of real ale from the excellent Eagles Crag Brewery just across the road from Lydgate Viaduct? (I'm not a shareholder....but a loyal customer!).

Yes, that would certainly be a worthwhile addition to the trolley !

 

[D6130]

I think that the Holme Tunnel work some years ago is instructive really, the remediation to stabilise it took a full block of the line lasting many months. Despite that there wasn't the value for money, or indeed the confidence, to go up even to 45 miles / hour!

It's back up to 45 mph now....for passenger trains at least.