How did Skipton/Ilkley get electric trains?

[tbtc]

Harrogate might possibly have been included in the electrification scheme - but it is outside the West Yorkshire PTE area, so there was nobody willing to provide the necessary funds. For potential commuters, an emu service is more likely to get people out of cars than a bouncy journey in an overcrowded Pacer.

True. Harrogate is over the border in North Yorkshire.

But then so is Skipton, which gets four EMUs an hour. Harrogate sticks to shorter older DMUs.

 

[IanXC]

True. Harrogate is over the border in North Yorkshire.

But then so is Skipton, which gets four EMUs an hour. Harrogate sticks to shorter older DMUs.

Much as Harrogate is over the border, as I understand it its North Yorkshire County Council who are dragging their heels over creating an Integrated Transport Authority for the Leeds City Region (a la TfGM). Which could well provide the required funding.

Harrogate gets older DMUs sure, but not always shorter. Off Peak I'm yet to see a service not doubled up since the internal cascade when the 322s arrived.

 

[transmanche]

I fail to see how the two are linked - Harrogate, like Ilkley is well-to-do Yorkshire town with 2tph to Leeds. However, Ilkley has EMU services, and Harrogate DMU - are you suggesting that EMUs somehow make commuting more common, or increases a town's popularity?

It's the "sparks" effect. An upgrade to electric trains (in general) attracts more passengers than the previous trains. It was pretty much the basis of the Southern Railway's business plan.

 

[Lampshade]

But then so is Skipton, which gets four EMUs an hour. Harrogate sticks to shorter older DMUs.

It would have been more sensible to wire the few extra miles to Skipton than to cut electrification short at Steeton & Silsden. Harrogate would require electrification of a completely different line.

 

[tbtc]

It would have been more sensible to wire the few extra miles to Skipton than to cut electrification short at Steeton & Silsden. Harrogate would require electrification of a completely different line.

Wiring to Harrogate would have benefitted some West Yorkshire stations too though, and the line from Leeds to Harrogate isn't *that* much longer than the line from Keighley to Skipton.

All water under the bridge now, of course, but I don't think it was *obvious* that one route would be done and not the other

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Much as Harrogate is over the border, as I understand it its North Yorkshire County Council who are dragging their heels over creating an Integrated Transport Authority for the Leeds City Region (a la TfGM). Which could well provide the required funding.

When I made my posting, I did not feel the need to stress the difference in the local governmental administrative areas of Ilkley and Harrogate as I assumed the difference would have been self-evident to the forum members, which the majority of replies have borne out.

 

[Oswyntail]

Wiring to Harrogate would have benefitted some West Yorkshire stations too though, and the line from Leeds to Harrogate isn't *that* much longer than the line from Keighley to Skipton....

Two minor stations right at the start of the route - the section to Harrogate is much longer than Steeton to Skipton and involves more stations. Whereas the Skipton line, even excluding the Bradford branch, covers Shipley, Bingley and Keighley, all fairly large settlements. The triangle is also relatively self-contained, unlike other WY routes, and the pacers really were struggling with some of the gradients
[And anyone who maintains the route only serves posh Tories has obviously never visited Keighley or Shipley]

 

[Statto]

Problem with only electrifying the line to Harrogate is most trains continue to Poppleton or York, so you'd still have DMUs on that line, unless you electrify Harrogate-York secton as well.

 

[IanXC]

When I made my posting, I did not feel the need to stress the difference in the local governmental administrative areas of Ilkley and Harrogate as I assumed the difference would have been self-evident to the forum members, which the majority of replies have borne out.

I was just highlighting a little known, relevant, proposed change to the structure. I'm not sure I've met anyone who lives within the Leeds City Region, but outside West Yorkshire, who understands that, and the potential impact.

No intention to teach anyone to suck eggs!

 

[tbtc]

Problem with only electrifying the line to Harrogate is most trains continue to Poppleton or York, so you'd still have DMUs on that line, unless you electrify Harrogate-York secton as well.

Half the trains terminate at Knaresborough (just beyond Harrogate).

Then again, a proportion of Leeds - Skipton trains continue to Lancaster/ Carlisle.

Bear in mind that the frequencies on the Shipley lines twenty years ago were nothing like as good as they are now - the electrification has encouraged growth

 

[yorksrob]

Surely it makes sense just to carry it on around to York anyway. Then you could potentially extend some electric York Inter-City services on to Harrogate if needs be.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

[And anyone who maintains the route only serves posh Tories has obviously never visited Keighley or Shipley]

I specifically only mentioned Ilkley in my posting and went to the trouble to give some historical and current information on that particular town. Ilkley seems to be a place actively sought after in which to live for the professional classes who gravitate to employment in Leeds.

I am very well aware of the aesthetic qualities of the other two areas to which you refer....I am sure that a "Bettys Tea Room" is very unlikely to be opened in either Keighley or Shipley..:roll:

 

[bluenoxid]

I specifically only mentioned Ilkley in my posting and went to the trouble to give some historical and current information on that particular town. Ilkley seems to be a place actively sought after in which to live for the professional classes who gravitate to employment in Leeds.

I am very well aware of the aesthetic qualities of the other two areas to which you refer....I am sure that a "Bettys Tea Room" is very unlikely to be opened in either Keighley or Shipley..:roll:

Why not

It is very good that they electrified the route. Whilst Bingley Bypass did a great deal of work to relieve the pressure on traffic at Bingley, Saltaire now sits jammed and I shudder when I have to attempt it during peak hour (this week I am setting off an hour early to beat traffic)

I remember the introduction and even the elderley stock was an amazing change for the route.

I agree that there has been a great impact and I really want to see wires rolled out. I want them to really scrutinise the Harrogate line and the passenger flows on it. I think that a quick wiring of the line to Horsforth with EMU's rolling through during peak hour to boost the service on this section, it would really help the route. With this breathing space, a breath can be taken. I think that anyone warbling on about Tram Trains should sit down and shut up with regards to this route. It just doesn't suit it unless we want to break the service on this route at Harrogate/Knaresborough.