How Do Voyagers Depart Like This?

[nath9425]

Hi All,

Something that has been bugging me for quite a while about the Voyager departure. When all the doors have closed the Voyager just before taking off brings in a different noise. An example is here at 0:17.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GuOiQsOjAoY

The train can keep this sound for quite a long period of time, but my question is, how do the drivers get it to that stage? Does the reverser go into Forward? Then the voyager will slowly pull off on that sound then the main engines kick in.

Anybody have any ideas?

 

[thefab444]

Most probably that is Notch 1.

 

[westcoaster]

me thinks it is to do with interlocking, when the doors start to close the driver will start to power up with the brake still applied, using the hill start button on the handle, either that or taking it off idle. you only hear it on voyagers not on meridians, so when the tm gives the driver the close doors buzzer/bell code he might start reving then,
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
wait a minute i think this has been asked before wasn't it something to do with sitting in a platform and providing leccy for the aircon and lights/power.

 

[BlueGrey]

Once the driver has door interlock (i.e. all doors closed) placing the direction switch in forward increases the engine revs slightly whether or not power is selected. The second increase in engine revs is when power is actually taken.

 

[nath9425]

Most probably that is Notch 1.

I don't think it is. As in comparison with this video -
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BnV6Kn59psE
The sound appears for 16 seconds before the train even starts to move.

How can brakes be applied at the same time as powering? I thought it was just one big handle.

Unless he is powering in Neutral (Seen it happen with the Chiltern 165's to clear the engine through) then switches to forward.

 

[BlueGrey]

I don't think it is. As in comparison with this video -
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BnV6Kn59psE
The sound appears for 16 seconds before the train even starts to move.

How can brakes be applied at the same time as powering? I thought it was just one big handle.

Unless he is powering in Neutral (Seen it happen with the Chiltern 165's to clear the engine through) then switches to forward.

It was quite hard to tell off your video but 16 seconds would be a long time to sit their in forward. Once the doors are shut the driver still needs 2 buzzes off the TM to depart. Their may have been a delay in this happening for some reason at Oxford. PS You can't power in neutral on a Voyager

 

[nath9425]

It was quite hard to tell off your video but 16 seconds would be a long time to sit their in forward...

The time period of 0:05 - 0:21 in that video.

...Once the doors are shut the driver still needs 2 buzzes off the TM to depart. Their may have been a delay in this happening for some reason at Oxford. PS You can't power in neutral on a Voyager

I only seem to find this noise appear when the TM's door actually fully locks in. Then the noise comes in and the two beeps are exchanged and they have the clear to go.

I still reckon is has something to do with the reverser.

 

[BlueGrey]

I still reckon is has something to do with the reverser.

It does. It's when forward is selected with the doors shut (you said it happened once the TMs door shut) but before power is taken. Once power is taken engine revs will increase further. It just sounds like for some reason in your video once the unit was in forward there was a delay before power was taken. Possibly the driver had accidently left the DRA in.

 

[class 313]

Shouldn't the reverser always be put at forward until you leave the cab or need to reverse and you can't do it from the other cab?

 

[BlueGrey]

Shouldn't the reverser always be put at forward until you leave the cab or need to reverse and you can't do it from the other cab?

The reverser (I think direction switch is the proper name) is normally only in forward or reverse when you need to move the train. When the train is stationary it would normally be placed in Engine Only (though I think it may be called neutral on units) i.e. neither forward or reverse selected. Both cabs have a direction switch / reverser but any cab not in use will have this moved to off.

 

[Aureol]

Shouldn't the reverser always be put at forward until you leave the cab or need to reverse and you can't do it from the other cab?

Depending on the TOC, drivers will select Engine Only on the reverser at near enough every stop. If I am correct, the Vigilance on the DSD still kicks in in Forward even if the train is at a stand but not in EO, so I expect this can be pretty annoying having to confirm the DSD every time the thing beeps.

 

[222001]

This does also happen with the 222's. Sometimes it happens before all the doors are closed or while they are closing.

This does not happen all the time and rarely they pull away without doing it.

 

[class 313]

I have noticed 222s do it a lot less than they did.

 

[Turbostar]

I have noticed on MU's in the past, driver's usually active the DRA once they come to a stop at stations.

 

[Jordy]

Remember that voyagers are DEMUs, the 'notching up' is usually to provide extra power, often needed when closing the doors etc

 

[Jim]

Remember that voyagers are DEMUs, the 'notching up' is usually to provide extra power, often needed when closing the doors etc

Horay, the answer is in the last post of the lot thereThere was me about to post it.....

 

[Techniquest]

Almost worth sticky-fying it to avoid this question having to be asked again in the future, I'd say.

 

[BlueGrey]

Remember that voyagers are DEMUs, the 'notching up' is usually to provide extra power, often needed when closing the doors etc

You can open and close doors on a Voyager with the engines shut down

 

[kestrel]

Shouldn't the reverser always be put at forward until you leave the cab or need to reverse and you can't do it from the other cab?

if you leave the the reverser in 'Forward' or 'reverse' the vigilance will remain active, when you come to a stop the reverser is put in 'Neutral' with CBPC into brake step 1 or 3, then you can take your feet off the deadmans etc.

The engines rev up a little on the voyagers so as to give extra amps for the doors, the doors on these units are powered by electric motors

 

[BlueGrey]

The engines rev up a little on the voyagers so as to give extra amps for the doors, the doors on these units are powered by electric motors

I don't think the engines rev up at all for the doors. You can open and close doors with the engines shut down. The engines do however rev up if the driver has door interlock (all doors shut) and moves the reverser to forward. Just by moving the reverser from neutral to froward (but not taking power) the engine revs increase. If the reverser were then placed back to neutral the engine revs would decrease. This has absolutely nothing to do with taking power.

 

[Jordy]

You can open and close doors on a Voyager with the engines shut down

Yes, but the engine provides the electric hence the notching up (remember with all the other gizmos loaded into a voyager it can be a bit of a strain on the batteries!)

 

[222001]

I dont think it is to provide extra power for the doors as it even happens if the train stops and doors are not opened / closed.

Also the opposite happens when the train stops, the engines rev down after it has stopped just before the doors open.

 

[BlueGrey]

I dont think it is to provide extra power for the doors as it even happens if the train stops and doors are not opened / closed.

Also the opposite happens when the train stops, the engines rev down after it has stopped just before the doors open.

I'd never noticed the engines rev down when they stop but that would be consistent with what I said about the Reverser. The engines revving down when they stop would either be caused by the driver replacing the direction switch from forward to neutral or losing the door interlock by releasing the doors.

 

[Guinness]

This has been posted a couple of times before.

Voyager motors work like an EMUs where as the drive is from an Electric Motor rather than Mechanically Direct Drive (or through Voith etc.) similar to all other DMUs like 156, 170s but the Diesel Engine replaces Pantograph/3rd Rail Shoes. This makes the Diesel Engine not only there to provide Electricity for the train systems such as Lights, TMS, Air Con but also for the Electric Motors. As the engine idles it will generate electric for the systems and may also generate enough power for the train to pull away from the station for a few moments before revving up the diesel engine to produce more energy for the electric motors. It's basically a similar design to most BR Diesel Locos.

HTH

 

[heart-of-wessex]

yes this was a post I put on here once asking this, but had no video to explain what I was on about.

Though I notice sometimes the revvs go slightly higher before departure, other times ive seen it on the normal idle revs and not revv up before departure, but only when it was moving, so it must be the reverser...

67s I think seem to revv higher when sitting at a Station, on 31st May I saw 019 idling away like yingyingyingying then the guy when in the cab, done something then went to yingyingying yingyinggg.........(the the more normal)..ying-ying-ying-ying

 

[BlueGrey]

yes this was a post I put on here once asking this, but had no video to explain what I was on about.

Though I notice sometimes the revvs go slightly higher before departure, other times ive seen it on the normal idle revs and not revv up before departure, but only when it was moving, so it must be the reverser...

67s I think seem to revv higher when sitting at a Station, on 31st May I saw 019 idling away like yingyingyingying then the guy when in the cab, done something then went to yingyingying yingyinggg.........(the the more normal)..ying-ying-ying-ying

I don't know very much about 67s but I'm sure I was once told that the noise for the drivers in the cab was pretty much intolerent once the ETH (Electric Train Supply) was switched on as even when the loco's were stationary the engine revs were equivalent to approx half power being selected (if that makes sense).

 

[class 313]

67s I think seem to revv higher when sitting at a Station, on 31st May I saw 019 idling away like yingyingyingying then the guy when in the cab, done something then went to yingyingying yingyinggg.........(the the more normal)..ying-ying-ying-ying

67s ying up more when they have the ETH switched on, just as BlueGrey said.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

ahh so maybe he went in to turn it off or something, but he did press something to calm it down so to speak, must have been that

 

[class 313]

ahh so maybe he went in to turn it off or something, but he did press something to calm it down so to speak, must have been that

Yup, that would be the ETH being turned off.

 

[Kneedown]

How can brakes be applied at the same time as powering? I thought it was just one big handle.

Because, as the power/braking is controlled by one handle, there is a delay (on 170's at least) of a couple of seconds between the Driver taking power, and the engines and transmission actually providing the power. If the train is on an uphill gradient it could roll backwards during this delay, and so there is whats known as a "Hill Start button" on the handle which the Driver depresses when taking power. This maintains a step 1 brake application until the driver actually hears the engines rev up, whereupon he releases the button, thus preventing rollback. The same principle applies to all trains and those with seperate power and brake controllers. The Driver will not fully release the brakes until he is satisfied that positive power is being obtained. This is the reason that a Sprinter will provide power when the brake is in step 1.

Regards,
K'down.