How do you 'evacuate' a busy station like Leeds?

[johntea]

This morning I stepped off the train at Leeds, Platform 17 to hear a rather loud 'due to a suspicious package please evacuate the station immediately' (can't remember the exact wording)

It was later determined that this was just a test of the system, I was aware they tested good old 'Inspector Sands' weekly but this was the first time I have heard of the suspicious package announcement, also the gateline remained wide open for a while as it would be had it been a real evacuation.

But it got me thinking, as most passengers gave the announcement zero attention and just carried on moving around the station at their usual pace, how would a station such as Leeds be evacuated as efficiently as possible in an emergency? It seems like it would be rather challenging to carry out such a task

 

[civ-eng-jim]

I expect human intervention would be required to confirm it wasn't a drill and eventually passengers would get the hint.

Same happens with fire alarm tests in offices. People assume it's a test, the bell/siren goes on a bit longer, people stare at each other a bit but remain at their desks and then the fire warden storms through saying it's not a scheduled test.

 

[sheff1]

There should be an evacuation plan (not necessarily under that exact name). Network Rail are subject to the Freedom of Information Act so you might wish to raise a request.

 

[yorksrob]

This morning I stepped off the train at Leeds, Platform 17 to hear a rather loud 'due to a suspicious package please evacuate the station immediately' (can't remember the exact wording)

It was later determined that this was just a test of the system, I was aware they tested good old 'Inspector Sands' weekly but this was the first time I have heard of the suspicious package announcement, also the gateline remained wide open for a while as it would be had it been a real evacuation.

But it got me thinking, as most passengers gave the announcement zero attention and just carried on moving around the station at their usual pace, how would a station such as Leeds be evacuated as efficiently as possible in an emergency? It seems like it would be rather challenging to carry out such a task

When abouts was this ?

I got off at 17 at around 7:50 to an employee shouting at us. I had my headphones in so I assumed he was telling us to get away from the edge of 16 as a TPE was about to depart !

 

[Kite159]

But it got me thinking, as most passengers gave the announcement zero attention and just carried on moving around the station at their usual pace,

If it's like the weekly test at Waterloo (Sundays around 9pm) there is normally an announcement before hand about the test and to ignore it.

 

[Bald Rick]

To answer the OPs question: there will be an emergency plan which includes evacuation. This will explain, in detail, what each person on the station team* is required to do. They will be trained to do it. If the plan is activated, passengers would know!

* station team in this case being the NR managed station team. Staff working for other organisations may also have some evacuation responsibilities (eg barrier line staff might be required to open all ticket barriers and prevent people from entering platforms), however overall accountability for the plan will rest with the station facility operator.

 

[Ianno87]

Common practice is also, where trains are loaded and have drivers, is to let them depart as normal as a means of evacuation - that's happened to me at Liverpool Street at least once.

Used for real, I believe on Underground trains in the 1987 King's Cross fire (though must've taken one heck of alot of 'encouragement' from platform staff to not let *anybody* alight)

 

[Busaholic]

Who on here remembers the 'four minute warning' of nuclear attack? The alarm in urban areas was to be raised primarily by air raid sirens left over from WW2 sounding. There were never any 'practice alarms' AFAIK. However, in the mid 1980s the peace of Blackheath Village in SE London, and many other places for miles around, was shattered about 9 o'clock on a Saturday morning when the air raid siren located at Woolwich sounded for about thirty seconds. I can only say that my wife and I looked at each other over the breakfast table and, mutually silent, both decided to ignore it, as it was certainly. too late to react in any meaningful way. I remember I did get up and go to look outside in the road to see if mass panic had gripped the neighbourhood, but with no sign I went back and had another piece of toast. Always thought how mundane a way it'd have been to face nuclear catastrophe. So, if that's how one reacts to what was certainly not a test, but a cock-up by someone somewhere, of assured imminent destruction, what sort of reaction to a suspicious package? I think it all depends on the circumstances surrounding it e.g. on those Saturday mornings in Manchester city centre and on Bishopsgate in the City of London when it was evident from the video footage that came out later that the police shouting to everybody to run knew those vehicles almost certainly contained massive bombs and the public seeing and hearing them knew that too. Amazing in retrospect that thankfully they did little damage physically to humans, though so much to buildings.

 

[Busaholic]

Common practice is also, where trains are loaded and have drivers, is to let them depart as normal as a means of evacuation - that's happened to me at Liverpool Street at least once.

Used for real, I believe on Underground trains in the 1987 King's Cross fire (though must've taken one heck of alot of 'encouragement' from platform staff to not let *anybody* alight)

I'm relying on memory here, so not claiming total accuracy, but Piccadilly and Northern line trains were quickly non-stopping and it was only because Victoria Line ones still were that the toll wasn't much greater. Seem to remember that something happened on the Met too to stop a train that was otherwise running through to potentially save the life of other passengers.

I'm sure the panic on that Vic Line platform (or platforms, can't remember) would have quickly dissuaded all but the most obtuse from trying to get off those trains.

 

[M28361M]

Common practice is also, where trains are loaded and have drivers, is to let them depart as normal as a means of evacuation - that's happened to me at Liverpool Street at least once.

There's an old Merseyrail fire alarm training video on YouTube where this is specifically stated as one possible evacuation method.

 

[jamesst]

There's an old Merseyrail fire alarm training video on YouTube where this is specifically stated as one possible evacuation method.

Yeah it's quite an advanced system up on the Liverpool underground.
Depending where you are on the station when the alarms go off means you will hear differing evacuation messages. For example the Wirral platform at Liverpool Central you may hear evacuate on the next train whereas the Northern platforms you may hear evacuate by the fire exit. In addition the fire doors will open/close in the direction the system wants you to leave.

 

[DarloRich]

how would a station such as Leeds be evacuated as efficiently as possible in an emergency?

With both blunt verbal and physical persuasion if required!

Network Rail are subject to the Freedom of Information Act so you might wish to raise a request.

and they might not give you it for some quite obvious reasons

To answer the OPs question: there will be an emergency plan which includes evacuation. This will explain, in detail, what each person on the station team* is required to do. They will be trained to do it. If the plan is activated, passengers would know!

* station team in this case being the NR managed station team. Staff working for other organisations may also have some evacuation responsibilities (eg barrier line staff might be required to open all ticket barriers and prevent people from entering platforms), however overall accountability for the plan will rest with the station facility operator.

indeed! The local staff will know exactly what they should be doing in the circumstances.

 

[Meerkat]

I would hope FOI don’t hand out evacuation plans considering a standard terrorist tactic is to have follow up bombs in crowds caused by the initial bomb.
It wouldn’t be that difficult to find out or have a good guess but no point making it easy!

 

[221129]

There should be an evacuation plan (not necessarily under that exact name). Network Rail are subject to the Freedom of Information Act so you might wish to raise a request.

But you'll have no chance of getting it released.

 

[sheff1]

Common practice is also, where trains are loaded and have drivers, is to let them depart as normal as a means of evacuation - that's happened to me at Liverpool Street at least once.

Very sensible if that is the current policy. I was at Victoria, on a train due to depart, when the IRA bomb went off in 1991. Everyone was ordered off that train (and, I believe, the other loaded trains) and sent back down the platform past however many rubbish bins, any of which could have contained another bomb but, fortunately, did not.

 

[yorksrob]

Very sensible if that is the current policy. I was at Victoria, on a train due to depart, when the IRA bomb went off in 1991. Everyone was ordered off that train (and, I believe, the other loaded trains) and sent back down the platform past however many rubbish bins, any of which could have contained another bomb but, fortunately, did not.

Interestingly, they must have changed that policy very soon afterwards as I was sat on a train in Charing Cross the week after when there was a bomb scare, and it left early with everyone on it.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

One would also assume that there are frequent drills to test the evacuation procedure and keep competencies up to date. It is easy to become complacent and forget what to do in the event of a real emergency

 

[Cuboid]

I suppose depending on how urgent the issue or problem is determine's the speed & effort of evacuation.

Last year when someone was threatening suicide on the catwalk gangway above platform 8 at Leeds the station platform areas (from P1 to P17) were evacuated out the station. Most via standard gateline, I was evacuated out the fire escape on New Station street (where RailGourmet is based).

Then they pushed people away from the gateline as he was in eyesight of there towards the back of the Southern concourse or into the Northern Concourse. This was when all the scaffolding was up for the roof being done.

Probably a total evacuation over 30-45 minutes once they realised the guy wasn't having a laugh about it.

 

[childwallblues]

Many years ago we were at Birmingham New Street when the alarms went off and we were told to leave the station. We were on the train at Platform 4C at the time and were tol get off. We had suitcases and the lift was switched off and the escalator was not working. We could not walk up a stopped escalator so us (and about 30 other aged/infirm people) just stood there whilst confused orange jackets ran round in a panic talking into walkie talkies. The up shot was that the orange jackets had to start getting the luggage upstairs and help the passengers as well. After some time the alarms stopped and the station re-opened. Some of us were still on the platform.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Many years ago we were at Birmingham New Street when the alarms went off and we were told to leave the station. We were on the train at Platform 4C at the time and were tol get off. We had suitcases and the lift was switched off and the escalator was not working. We could not walk up a stopped escalator so us (and about 30 other aged/infirm people) just stood there whilst confused orange jackets ran round in a panic talking into walkie talkies. The up shot was that the orange jackets had to start getting the luggage upstairs and help the passengers as well. After some time the alarms stopped and the station re-opened. Some of us were still on the platform.

Hindsight is always easy, but that looks like a situation where ‘stay on the train’ would have been the best advice. 4C is outside the station building so (assuming that the evacuation was for a fire in the building) the train would have been safe - although in the absence of a train crew to take it towards Wolverhampton the safe passengers would also have been trapped passengers.

 

[dosxuk]

A train station like Leeds is going to be easy to evacuate compared to many other locations. I'd much rather be managing an evacuation there than:
- A busy tube station, e.g. Kings Cross
- large tourist attractions like Madame Tussauds
- large nightclubs full of drunk + deafened people
- a busy international airport with loads of people not allowed entry to the UK
- a prison

And so on... All these places will have procedures, plans and training in place to make evacuations safe and the difficulties accounted for.

 

[vlad]

A few years ago I was on the Northern line platform at Old Street when there was a siren and recorded message advising everyone to leave the station immediately. A train was due so I left by rail. I've no idea what would have happened if I'd stayed on the platform - certainly nobody else was making a move and there weren't any staff visible to lead us away.

 

[hooverboy]

A train station like Leeds is going to be easy to evacuate compared to many other locations. I'd much rather be managing an evacuation there than:
- A busy tube station, e.g. Kings Cross
- large tourist attractions like Madame Tussauds
- large nightclubs full of drunk + deafened people
- a busy international airport with loads of people not allowed entry to the UK
- a prison

And so on... All these places will have procedures, plans and training in place to make evacuations safe and the difficulties accounted for.

so the theory goes, but in practice marshalling people is like herding cats.

with an emergency procedure-almost all that are part of training, you don't tend to get the cadre of people sent down by the manager to act like headless chickens on purpose, thereby disrupting the evacuation.Most of the time these drills are done by the book, a few people will delay a response but then move out in an orderly fashion.
It would be a more effective drill to have some "captain chaos" types in there to either panic, dither, deliberately ignor,simulate drunkenness/intoxication of substance etc.

I get that police,paramedics,fire and so on will get the more realistic version of training.
Airports you have guys with guns pointing at you and you do as they say! end of!

I think probably the worst for evacuations are crowded,confined spaces and those with intoxicated people.

It does take a certain "act" to pass off being the voice of calm and authority in those type of scenarios.
when you have the bullhorn/mike/pa very concise and very clear is the key.keep it short, but repeat the key points a couple of times to convey the instruction.

 

[DarloRich]

so the theory goes, but in practice marshalling people is like herding cats.

with an emergency procedure-almost all that are part of training, you don't tend to get the cadre of people sent down by the manager to act like headless chickens on purpose, thereby disrupting the evacuation.Most of the time these drills are done by the book, a few people will delay a response but then move out in an orderly fashion.
It would be a more effective drill to have some "captain chaos" types in there to either panic, dither, deliberately ignor,simulate drunkenness/intoxication of substance etc.

I get that police,paramedics,fire and so on will get the more realistic version of training.
Airports you have guys with guns pointing at you and you do as they say! end of!

I think probably the worst for evacuations are crowded,confined spaces and those with intoxicated people.

It does take a certain "act" to pass off being the voice of calm and authority in those type of scenarios.
when you have the bullhorn/mike/pa very concise and very clear is the key.keep it short, but repeat the key points a couple of times to convey the instruction.

I have been invovled in several practice evacuations at stations and elsewhere over the years. People are often given a brief to act up. Once I was given the roll. It was fun!

But I am sure you know best.

 

[Horizon22]

In practice, it happens actually reasonably frequently. London Victoria was evacuated about 3 times last year due to spurious fire alarms and suspicious packages. I've personally been involved in a couple of full station evacs.

NR managed stations will have extensive evacuation plans with several staff members on duty having specific tasks such as manning entrances, responsibility for making the decision to evacuate, calling the fire brigade etc.

Once you hear the "due to a reported emergency..." announcement, you'll be surprised how many people leave due to their own volition. It is normally then backed up by manual announcements and staff moving people to the nearest available exit. The signaller will be phoned to prevent trains entering the station if at all possible. Some will just have passed the home signal and staff will need to try and escort these people quickly off platforms.

 

[Horizon22]

Interestingly, they must have changed that policy very soon afterwards as I was sat on a train in Charing Cross the week after when there was a bomb scare, and it left early with everyone on it.

That's generally policy now. If a train is loaded and the emergency is on the station, the train should be dispatched (early if required).

 

[tsr]

Interestingly, they must have changed that policy very soon afterwards as I was sat on a train in Charing Cross the week after when there was a bomb scare, and it left early with everyone on it.

That's generally policy now. If a train is loaded and the emergency is on the station, the train should be dispatched (early if required).

The policy entirely depends on whether the platform starter signal is cleared.

If it is, you dispatch the train there and then, provided it is crewed and ready to go in every other sense (at most major termini, a Train Ready To Start plunger would have been originally activated to confirm this and get the signaller to clear the signal anyway).

If the signal is not clear, you usually evacuate the train alongside the station.

 

[Horizon22]

The policy entirely depends on whether the platform starter signal is cleared.

If it is, you dispatch the train there and then, provided it is crewed and ready to go in every other sense (at most major termini, a Train Ready To Start plunger would have been originally activated to confirm this and get the signaller to clear the signal anyway).

If the signal is not clear, you usually evacuate the train alongside the station.

That's what I mean; if a train is TRTS'd, fully crewed and essentially ready to go but its 4-5 minutes before departure, then it should be dispatched anyway - no doubt local control or platform staff would have already explained the circumstances.

If it's only just started loading, then the better option is to of course evacuate.

 

[yorksrob]

That's generally policy now. If a train is loaded and the emergency is on the station, the train should be dispatched (early if required).

The policy entirely depends on whether the platform starter signal is cleared.

If it is, you dispatch the train there and then, provided it is crewed and ready to go in every other sense (at most major termini, a Train Ready To Start plunger would have been originally activated to confirm this and get the signaller to clear the signal anyway).

If the signal is not clear, you usually evacuate the train alongside the station.

Thanks. That sounds about right as it wasn't far off from departure anyway.

 

[Alan2603]

There used to be in place a policy that if there is a 'real' emergency on the station, all the shops/cafe's located within the station close immediately and evacuate. This however wasn't required for a 'practice/drill' due to the potential loss of sales during the drill!

I learned from a relative who used to work in WHS at Leeds station.