How easy is it to fare dodge?

[krus_aragon]

I don't know what happens at Queen Street, but it's probably pretty easy to get a train at Cathays and most of the Cardiff Valleys lines stations most times and travel to Central to change for a main line station.

My experience five years ago was thay Cathays' barriers were typically staffed for the morning peak, Monday to Friday only.

 

[johntea]

I suspect barriers are the least of a fare dodger worries anyway, I could buy a Leeds to Wakefield single for a couple of quid to get me through then end up in Plymouth if I don't get clocked along the way!

Always makes me laugh when I overhear that someone hasn't got their ticket and they 'must have left it at the barriers' even though I believe most barriers won't actually open until you've retrieved your ticket from them!

 

[jon0844]

I'd say all barriers won't open until you take your ticket. Like a ATM giving your money only after taking the card back.

 

[neilmc]

That is a very good question and i dont think there really is an answer to it. I think even if you are an honest person you just have to travel for free (and i imagine thats what all people who make these journeys do).

I'm probably at the honest end of people. I wouldn't dream of taking advantage of a financial mistake made in my favour by, say, the local butcher or pub landlord. And I did look rather longingly at the unmarked, unchecked part of an off-peak return recently before deciding I really wouldn't re-use it for another journey even though it would have been easy.

But if I make a journey between two unstaffed stations at which there is no TVM at my departure station, and no staff member comes to sell me a ticket on the train, I take the view that I have committed no dishonesty, it's the fault of the TOC and their lax attitudes to revenue (presumably my journey would have been considered an uncommon one and therefore an acceptable loss), and one up to me, to be offset against journeys where I am fleeced by having to travel in peak or being unaware of good splitting options.

 

[wingsoveryorks]

Makes me laugh when people ask for a single or return from a station with a barrier. They never come off another service. Problem is, we are pretty much powerless to prove otherwise.

"Just don't bother asking for a railcard discount or a cheap ticket fella" is what goes through my mind.

 

[Hadders]

In fairness to GTR there are details of successful prosecutions in my local paper most weeks. Last week they gave details of 6 cases.

As the railway gets busier it becomes harder to complete ticket checks. I got the 1843 from Kings Cross to Stevenage tonight (8-car class 321 btw) which was fully wedged - absolutely no chance of a ticket check whatsoever on-board it was so full.

The barriers were in operation at Kings Cross but upon arrival at Stevenage the barriers had to be opened by the staff to prevent a dangerous build up of passengers which had to be cleared as the nest arrival was just a few minutes behind. This is a regular occurrence.

 

[Scotrail84]

Same applies to me as well, albeit it wasn't a replacement bus (but have been in the same instance recently). The last Glasgow QS to Dundee service yesterday I was on consisted of 2 x 170s, and not once did the guard bother to check any tickets, and not once did he attemped to change units to check them further, as guards normally do. No wonder Abellio tried to introduce certain measures of which I won't mention....



It's none of my business to get involved in what other folk were doing. As far as I'm concerned isn't it up to the guard to check the toilets on his way through the train? Also, the catering crew were through a couple of times and should've checked for a valid ticket before serving complementaries, so I'd of assumed they'd of taken care of it. They wouldn't have even gotten onto the train had barriers been installed across platforms 1 and 2 at Glasgow Central and at Carlisle.

There is absolutely no requirement for the guard to jump sets as that leaves nobody in the rear set for an emergency. Plus, how do you know they never attempted to check tickets? There could be a number of reasons for it. They may have attempted but train was too busy or maybe the guard received abuse for asking for a ticket which happens quite a lot on late night services. If that happened I wouldn't continue to attempt to check tickets either.
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A revenue protection officer once said to me "we only have to get lucky once, someone bunking the fare has to be lucky every single time.

So Im reading this and people are bemoaning fare dodgers yet they day nothing to the duty train crew. As I have said countless times on here before We cannot do anything about it if we dont know about it, sp speak ip and tell us!

As for checking toilets, if I see an occupied toilet Ill keep an eye on it and see who comes out

As for how easy it is, well people have figured out how to remove sharpie markings off a ticket. Standard opens being reused over and over again, barriered stations having obvious weakspots or unmanned, people keeping their heads ducked down when the question "tickets from....." is asked. Tickets being sold on eBay.....

How is this done? I only ask because i use a sharpie when checking tickets.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

How is this done? I only ask because i use a sharpie when checking tickets.

Im not going to reveal that publically. I am not going to be held responsible for encouraging fare evasion

NOD i saw a bloke obviously not a first class ticket holder bump his way thru ticket barriers at Newcastle which were too slow to react to his presence. So deliberately unchecked. Before I had chance to alert barrier staff he was long gone.

As a member of staff you see that happen, you wonder what the point of the barriers are and if companies take such a poor view of protecting the revenue, then why should I as a conductor make the effort to protect that revenue....

 

[EbbwJunction1]

My experience five years ago was thay Cathays' barriers were typically staffed for the morning peak, Monday to Friday only.

Yes, you're probably right. Mind you, I often travelled before the "morning peak" (at around 7.00am) when quite a few people got off without having to show tickets - in fact, the staff were often on the same train!

 

[Scotrail84]

Im not going to reveal that publically. I am not going to be held responsible for encouraging fare evasion

NOD i saw a bloke obviously not a first class ticket holder bump his way thru ticket barriers at Newcastle which were too slow to react to his presence. So deliberately unchecked. Before I had chance to alert barrier staff he was long gone.

As a member of staff you see that happen, you wonder what the point of the barriers are and if companies take such a poor view of protecting the revenue, then why should I as a conductor make the effort to protect that revenue....

PM me then, I am involved in revenue protection and would like to know how this is done.

 

[plymothian]

Bloody easy I'd say; there are many ways to dodge all or the correct fare.

Stations that are not barriered full stop.
Barriers are unmanned due to staff shortages.
Barriers are unmanned at certain times of the day.
There is an unbarriered entrance at an otherwise barriered station.
Doughnutting.
There are no ticketing facilities at departure or arrival station.
Remote TVMs are unreliable, or only carrying payment you know it can't accept.
Trains formed of non gangway stock.
Boarding the train furthest away from staff members.
There are not enough roving ticket examiners
Guards don't have enough time to get to everyone.
Trains are too busy for staff to get through.
Toilets are easily available to hide in.
Stations are close together.
Offering a card you know gets declined and there isn't enough time to manually authorise it.
Not getting a ticket for the whole journey.
Short faring.
Only carrying large notes for a small fare journey, particularly early in the morning.
Bull****ting the staff until your stop and just walk off.
Obtaining a fake ticket.
Finding a discarded ticket.
Reusing an open ticket.
Buying a discount ticket without railcard/lying about your age.
Ungripping a ticket.

 

[Clip]

Im not going to reveal that publically. I am not going to be held responsible for encouraging fare evasion

NOD i saw a bloke obviously not a first class ticket holder bump his way thru ticket barriers at Newcastle which were too slow to react to his presence. So deliberately unchecked. Before I had chance to alert barrier staff he was long gone.

As a member of staff you see that happen, you wonder what the point of the barriers are and if companies take such a poor view of protecting the revenue, then why should I as a conductor make the effort to protect that revenue....

As you well know though - those that want to double through the barriers are those who are more than likely going to give the staff grief and quite possibly be assaulted and your conflict avoidance awareness training tells you not to do that unless the BTP are there and if they are then they wont do it.

We cant be watching over staff all the time which is the issue as some staff are just pure lazy and wont do a bloody thing to be proactive in their duties.

 

[Kite159]

I've noticed some passengers on Northern trains will board right at the front in the hope that the guard doesn't have time to reach them. Especially on the lines with no TVMs.

Worst is probably the Blackpool South loop where it is two units during the summer months, which most of the time don't have gangways, which means the front unit is a 'free-for-all' unless there is an additional ticket seller [which I've noticed LM sometimes uses on the Shrewsbury services if formed of 2x 170s]

(I would quote, but Internet Explorer is doing what Internet Explorer does best in being rubbish)

 

[Francis]

I have never shown a ticket on any rail replacement service.

At Carlisle today, arriving on the rail replacement bus service from Armathwaite, all our tickets were checked as we alighted from the coach. Ditto, returning on the Armathwaite service, our tickets were checked as we got on. I think the same was true for the Appleby buses as well.

I was a bit surprised, but I had my £9.90 day ranger for the Leeds Settle Carlisle line and senior railcard to hand.

 

[greaterwest]

I'd say all barriers won't open until you take your ticket. Like a ATM giving your money only after taking the card back.

This is incorrect. After several seconds (i believe 10 or so?), Cubic barriers will open even if you don't retrieve your ticket. I have seen people leave their ticket in the barrier before.

 

[TrainfanBen]

Bloody easy I'd say; there are many ways to dodge all or the correct fare.

Could somebody please define doughnutting. I've never heard/seen that term.

The safeguards are in place to prevent fare evasion, but aren't utilised well enough. I don't think the railway helps itself by being so predictable.

It seems to be the same services at the same times that have/don't have ticket checks. I really think operators need to vary their routines to catch more people off guard.

 

[AlterEgo]

Could somebody please define doughnutting. I've never heard/seen that term.

The safeguards are in place to prevent fare evasion, but aren't utilised well enough. I don't think the railway helps itself by being so predictable.

It seems to be the same services at the same times that have/don't have ticket checks. I really think operators need to vary their routines to catch more people off guard.

Doughnutting or dumb belling is where on a longer journey you purchase short tickets to open the barriers only at either end. An example would be:

Journey: Woking-London
Tickets purchased: Woking-West Byfleet, Clapham Junction-London

The doughnutting refers to the hole in the middle.

 

[trivran]

Doughnutting, IIRC is the act of buying a ticket to get you on the train, and one to get you off it at the other end, but usually only valid for one or two stops at each end so you have a large unpaid 'hole' in the middle.

..beaten to it.