How is Stansted Airport viewed in terms of rail access from its catchment area?

[ac6000cw]

Crayons time:
Link from Wickford up to Chelmsford. Connect Braintree to Stansted as a through station. Add a chord north of Broxbourne to allow trains to run towards hertford, then link the branch so that trains can run on to the loop towards Stevnage. From Stevnage build a new line across and under Luton Airport. Run down the MML to St Albans, then branch onto the Abbey Line to Watford to join the DC to Wembley then a new line to Ealing. Through Heathrow, then onwards to Gatwick!

 

[Clip]

A link to Braintree is the best idea there I reckon.

 

[Bald Rick]

Very much agree with this. Im pretty sure MAG who own it would be willing to put a few quid towards it too.

But as has been stated, there's sufficient traffic to justify just a 2 hourly coach service from all the major cities of East Anglia. So how could a railway possibly be justified?

 

[ac6000cw]

But as has been stated, there's sufficient traffic to justify just a 2 hourly coach service from all the major cities of East Anglia. So how could a railway possibly be justified?

Exactly - having a railway on that route in the past (mostly due to it being the best available technology at the time it was built) should have no bearing on the economic case for choosing public transport modes in the present day. Especially if someone wants taxpayers money to subsidise it (most of whom will never travel on it, so it's actually a very unfair use of taxation compared to spending on health and education, for example).

 

[Dan27]

It's kind of hard to justify a link to Braintree when the "new" A120 could get you there just as quickly.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Me too - I might be a little cynical, but I wonder if the GA service is as much about ORCATS raiding as anything else, given that it's obviously designed to use 'marginal time' resources.

IIRC it is to "reserve" the path now so that they can extend the trains from Cambridge later, when they have more DMUs.

As for the original question, Stansted has great links in to London, but that's about it. Links to the immediate local area are poor- the train to Cambridge isn't all that frequent, and buses to immediate towns in Hertfordshire, Cambridgeshire or Essex are irregular and infrequent.

Every time I've gone to Stansted recently I've driven.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Useless fact - I just looked for genuine work reasons the top 50 flows from Cambridge - no 1 was obviously London Kings Cross - no 3 was .......


(Roll of drums)



Stansted Airport

 

[306024]

I should have winked back really.

Grimsby is perfectly placed if you need to get a train to Barton Upon Humber and have a cheap pint before. Also ideal for trains to Cleethorpes.

You've got me there, can't fault that logic.

Useless fact - I just looked for genuine work reasons the top 50 flows from Cambridge - no 1 was obviously London Kings Cross - no 3 was .......

(Roll of drums)

Stansted Airport

That's why splitting the 6 paths per hour available through Stansted tunnel is better split 4 from the south, 2 from the north, rather than 5 and 1 as it used to be.

 

[43074]

Useless fact - I just looked for genuine work reasons the top 50 flows from Cambridge - no 1 was obviously London Kings Cross - no 3 was .......


(Roll of drums)



Stansted Airport

Can you reveal no. 2? I'll guess Ely was fairly high on the list.

 

[ac6000cw]

Can you reveal no. 2? I'll guess Ely was fairly high on the list.

....and London Liverpool Street ?

I'd also be interested in the percentage breakdown by destination (for the top 5 or 10 at least)

 

[badassunicorn]

Whenever I'm at Stansted Airport station and the Cambridge's arrive there is always a large amount of people getting off the 4 car, way more then would be on my 8 car to London!

 

[misterredmist]

A little ironic for me this subject - as an "ex-pat" Mancunian, who used to live near to MAN Airport and therefore commence many a rail-journey from there to York / Newcastle-Tyne on many occasion , I now live between Hitchin & Flitwick:

I flew ex Stansted last year and traveled by rail , Hitchin - Cambridge - Stansted , and return. The rail journey was pleasant enough and knowing in advance it was going to take well over an hour was no issue and far better than using the car and having to pay parking......

Service was fine but I did find it strange that the EMU's at Cambridge marked "Stansted Express" were going to Liverpool Street NOT via Stansted , and that our eventual train was the XC from Birmingham to Stansted - so, although it worked for me, I'd have thought more EMU's ex Cambridge could have gone via Stansted......

Next month we have a flight to catch ex Gatwick , so we're on the service ex Flitwick to Gatwick ( Thameslink ) - it will be interesting to see how that works for us...again , far better than an "M25 rat race" me thinks.....

I suppose a lot is the luck of the draw as to whether you're near to a railway station and that railway station is linked conveniently to the airport your wish to use.......

apologies if I've made you all yawn..........

 

[Mikey C]

I get the impression that Coach travel is more important to Stansted than say Heathrow and Gatwick, with the road traffic in the area and M11 being relatively light, and the Stansted Express going to a less useful London terminus than the various options from Gatwick

 

[badassunicorn]

Liverpool St is plenty useful, depends where you want to go! The LU connection at Tottenham Hale is useful, as well is changing there for Stratford and the many connections there. I always found Victoria to be a bit of a pain to get to personally, but then again I did live in Stratford at the time!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I cannot divulge flow details from Cambridge - (obviously) - and I am writing a report on options for service improvements at home on Friday (peace and quiet) - what is surprising is the strength of business to places like Stevenage / Welwyn and to a lesser extent down the Lea Valley. The premier route is now Kings Cross for London - the once key route via Broxbourne is now NOT the preferred route for journeys to the "smoke" ......

Cambridge is such a developing place - that basically any capacity put onto GN (and to an extent GE routes - including Norwich and the Fens) , fills dramatically. Not unknown now for 12 cars to be full at certain off-peak times. (not counting special events like the Boat Race !)

 

[Mikey C]

Liverpool St is plenty useful, depends where you want to go! The LU connection at Tottenham Hale is useful, as well is changing there for Stratford and the many connections there. I always found Victoria to be a bit of a pain to get to personally, but then again I did live in Stratford at the time!

From Gatwick you've also got the Thameslink route, so London Bridge and Kings Cross/St Pancras are reachable etc

One other factor perhaps is that the M11 reaches right into London (coaches run to Stratford for example) whereas the M23 peters out a long way out, so any coach from Gatwick to Victoria would be very slow and tedious!

 

[306024]

Indeed the M11 makes coach a viable option for Stansted. Not much slower than the train but considerably cheaper. Quite a few people enquiring at the Terravision (always strikes me as a strange name) coach desk at Stansted Airport today.

..........I'd have thought more EMU's ex Cambridge could have gone via Stansted

..........apologies if I've made you all yawn..........

Nope, made me sit up and take notice

Even if you could divert a Cambridge to Liverpool St service via the airport (no paths) the time penalty would be too great.

 

[jopsuk]

The premier route is now Kings Cross for London - the once key route via Broxbourne is now NOT the preferred route for journeys to the "smoke" ......

Fifty minutes twice an hour, easy change (soon to be through trains) to Thameslink and a major Underground hub, plus Eurostar, versus at best an hour to The City with half the off-peak trains being much, much slower. I still take Liverpool Street trains if headed for the east of London or if travelling back just after an Arsenal match finishes (vice versa for Spurs matches)

Cambridge is such a developing place - that basically any capacity put onto GN (and to an extent GE routes - including Norwich and the Fens) , fills dramatically. Not unknown now for 12 cars to be full at certain off-peak times. (not counting special events like the Boat Race !)

Yup. Just look at the queues for tickets on Saturday and Sunday mid/late morning. Now 12-cars on a couple of Sunday services, could do with the Monday-Saturday off peak timetable on Sundays too.

Coaches are almost irrelevant for Cambridge- I think most of the Nat Ex services are two-hourly at best (certainly the Luton airport one is) with all offering much slower journey times than equivalent rail- evn the Satgecoach X5 to Oxford takes longer than going via Kings Cross & Paddington whilst the Stansted coach takes much longer than the trains do

 

[ac6000cw]

I cannot divulge flow details from Cambridge - (obviously) - and I am writing a report on options for service improvements at home on Friday (peace and quiet) - what is surprising is the strength of business to places like Stevenage / Welwyn and to a lesser extent down the Lea Valley. The premier route is now Kings Cross for London - the once key route via Broxbourne is now NOT the preferred route for journeys to the "smoke" ......

Cambridge is such a developing place - that basically any capacity put onto GN (and to an extent GE routes - including Norwich and the Fens) , fills dramatically. Not unknown now for 12 cars to be full at certain off-peak times. (not counting special events like the Boat Race !)

Understood - I didn't know if the info was publicly available (I don't know who you work for).

Yes, the days of one loco-hauled train to Liverpool Street per hour plus a bouncy DMU shuttle to Royston are long gone (thankfully).

 

[Clip]

But as has been stated, there's sufficient traffic to justify just a 2 hourly coach service from all the major cities of East Anglia. So how could a railway possibly be justified?

Exactly - having a railway on that route in the past (mostly due to it being the best available technology at the time it was built) should have no bearing on the economic case for choosing public transport modes in the present day. Especially if someone wants taxpayers money to subsidise it (most of whom will never travel on it, so it's actually a very unfair use of taxation compared to spending on health and education, for example).

Well I for one certainly do not like going anywhere by coach - I find them cramped and uncomfortable and avoid them at all costs.

I have no idea of how many people would use it but being this is a rail forum after all then surely a railway being built is a good thing is it not?

 

[TheNewNo2]

I've only travelled Stansted Express once, but I found it tedious due to the interminable security announcements being repeated in four different languages.

 

[Bald Rick]

... but being this is a rail forum after all then surely a railway being built is a good thing is it not?

Not if it takes money away from more deserving causes. Of which there are many.

 

[47421]

Those security announcements are a real pain. No idea why GA insist on them running on departure from Tottenham Hale when half the passengers on Stan Exp are commuters to Harlow / Stortford, many of whom will now have heard them hundreds of times. Surely they could be programmed to run only on departure from or passing through Stortford?

 

[SPADTrap]

Those security announcements are a real pain. No idea why GA insist on them running on departure from Tottenham Hale when half the passengers on Stan Exp are commuters to Harlow / Stortford, many of whom will now have heard them hundreds of times. Surely they could be programmed to run only on departure from or passing through Stortford?

But it's a Stansted Express, probably because the other 'half' are heading to the airport?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've only travelled Stansted Express once, but I found it tedious due to the interminable security announcements being repeated in four different languages.

It is an airport service going to an airport that serves other countries..

 

[Clip]

Not if it takes money away from more deserving causes. Of which there are many.

You could say that about many many things.

 

[47421]

Yes of course lots of passengers are going to the airport but why force all those that are not to listen to the security announcements?

Anyone know of any reason why they run on departure from Tottenham Hale rather than on leaving or passing through Stortford?

 

[Clip]

Yes of course lots of passengers are going to the airport but why force all those that are not to listen to the security announcements?

Erm if they have to tell the passengers going to the airports then how do you suggest they do so without telling those that are on the same train but not going to the airport?

 

[SPADTrap]

Yes of course lots of passengers are going to the airport but why force all those that are not to listen to the security announcements?

Anyone know of any reason why they run on departure from Tottenham Hale rather than on leaving or passing through Stortford?

Because it is the Stansted Express and Tottenham Hale is where a lot of airport passengers often join the train.

If the announcements about the airport are disliked then don't use an airport service, not sure 'force' comes into it.

 

[306024]

Four languages? I remember hearing English, Spanish and Italian, may have missed the fourth, and yes I thought it would be more appropriate to announce nearer the airport, depends how long they think it takes you to put your gels and liquids in a plastic bag I guess.

Mind you gel is essential for a night out in Harlow (I'm told)

 

[47421]

Do you use the West anglia line much? Stansted express services form the fastest and most frequent and most comfortable services from the busy commuter stations of Harlow Town and Bishops Stortford.

A simple way to improve the service for those commuters while not adversely affecting airport users would be to run the announcements north of Stortford.

Anyway, thanks for your contribution.