How long do Northern class 319's have left?

[_toommm_]

How's that going to work when none of the platforms on the airedale and wharfedale lines haven't been extended, also they interwork.

ASDO, which the 323s don’t (currently??) have.

 

[jonesy3001]

ASDO, which the 323s don’t (currently??) have.

Are the 333s fitted with this asdo, whatever that means, as most platforms only fit 4 car trains.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

with this asdo, whatever that means,

Automatic Selective Door Operation.

 

[Halish Railway]

How's that going to work when none of the platforms on the airedale and wharfedale lines haven't been extended, also they interwork.

The timetable for the Wharfedale and Airedale lines will likely have to be adjusted anyway to address the issue of six-carriage trains using platform 2 at Shipley on Leeds to Skipton services foul the points of Shipley East Jn at the same time that Bradford Forster Square to Leeds service uses platform 3. Any recast/adjustment of the timetable would probably put an end to interworking of Leeds to Skipton/Ilkley services with Bradford services.

Recently planning permission was put in to extend platforms at Shipley, Menston and Burley-in-Wharfedale. There are currently markers at Burley-in-Wharfedale where the platforms will be extended. More about it on this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/nr-shipley-platform-extensions-application.245854/#post-6148620

 

[jonesy3001]

The timetable for the Wharfedale and Airedale lines will likely have to be adjusted anyway to address the issue of six-carriage trains using platform 2 at Shipley on Leeds to Skipton services foul the points of Shipley East Jn at the same time that Bradford Forster Square to Leeds service uses platform 3. Any recast/adjustment of the timetable would probably put an end to interworking of Leeds to Skipton/Ilkley services with Bradford services.

Recently planning permission was put in to extend platforms at Shipley, Menston and Burley-in-Wharfedale. There are currently markers at Burley-in-Wharfedale where the platforms will be extended. More about it on this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/nr-shipley-platform-extensions-application.245854/#post-6148620

Menston is up the road from me so I will have a look next time I'm up that way.

 

[Sm5]

I've heard that the exchange of 3 and 4 car 331s across the Pennines will definitely be taking place for December 2023. (3 cars heading east to form 6 car trains, 4 car units all moving west) Will cost Northern in the region of £6,000 per unit to move them.

I assume they are going to be dragged over the Pennines ?
hire in a Rog/RA/GBRF loco ?

I remember travelling on one on their first day on Northern.

Thanks, I feel ancient now!

I remember their first day on NSE.

That said I remember riding over woodhead.

 

[_toommm_]

Are the 333s fitted with this asdo, whatever that means, as most platforms only fit 4 car trains.

Not as far as I know, but I imagine they’ll continue to work as single units, with the 331/0 doubled up.

 

[childwallblues]

The 4 car 331 units when new were split between between Allerton and Neville Hill. Allertons were mainly used from Liverpool to Wigan and Blackpool and were the ideal size to the line. When they transferred from Allerton 3 car 331s had to be used either in 3 or 6 car formations. 3 car formations were too small for passenger numbers in the Merseyside area and ironically so were the 6 car as the guards locked out the rear units as most platforms can only take 5 car trains.
The return of the four car 331s cannot come soon enough for me.

I assume they are going to be dragged over the Pennines ?
hire in a Rog/RA/GBRF loco ?


I remember their first day on NSE.

That said I remember riding over woodhead.

Drags would normally be Carnforth to Skipton.

 

[scrapy]

Can't wait for the Airport - Blackpool services during the school holidays!

The airport to Blackpool services should be a mix of 4 and 6 car 331 and doubled 323s from December. Should be plenty of capacity. Should 323s not be on the route by then their diagrams would be covered by single 319s (doubled up units pointless due to platform lengths and no SDO) although this is only likely to be until May 2024 so won't be over the summer period.

 

[LOL The Irony]

The airport to Blackpool services should be a mix of 4 and 6 car 331 and doubled 323s. Should be plenty of capacity.

323s don't have suitable interiors for the route. It's the 319s all over again.

 

[xtpe]

I have heard that Northern are looking at 350s for triangle and the 4 cars to be moved to Manchester and not swopped for 3 cars, also eventually all CAF units will be based in west and new units in east for replacement of diesel stock as that massively saves on training costs. 323s are becoming an issue now due to having problems sourcing replacement parts due to age of them so Northern are looking at options for replacement of them as well. All comes down to money and a business case going forward, only thing confirmed is that 319s are going by December and no doubt that will get pushed back.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I have heard that Northern are looking at 350s for triangle and the 4 cars to be moved to Manchester and not swopped for 3 cars, also eventually all CAF units will be based in west and new units in east for replacement of diesel stock as that massively saves on training costs.

Can I ask where you heard this from?

323s are becoming an issue now due to having problems sourcing replacement parts due to age of them so Northern are looking at options for replacement of them as well.

They had their traction equipment replaced in 2007 with Alstom gear, so I don't see this being an issue just yet.

 

[Halish Railway]

I have heard that Northern are looking at 350s for triangle and the 4 cars to be moved to Manchester and not swopped for 3 cars, also eventually all CAF units will be based in west and new units in east for replacement of diesel stock as that massively saves on training costs. 323s are becoming an issue now due to having problems sourcing replacement parts due to age of them so Northern are looking at options for replacement of them as well. All comes down to money and a business case going forward, only thing confirmed is that 319s are going by December and no doubt that will get pushed back.

The planning applications to extend various platforms around the triangle was submitted last week.

 

[Neptune]

I have heard that Northern are looking at 350s for triangle and the 4 cars to be moved to Manchester and not swopped for 3 cars, also eventually all CAF units will be based in west and new units in east for replacement of diesel stock as that massively saves on training costs. 323s are becoming an issue now due to having problems sourcing replacement parts due to age of them so Northern are looking at options for replacement of them as well. All comes down to money and a business case going forward, only thing confirmed is that 319s are going by December and no doubt that will get pushed back.

Is this a reliable source or wibble? I have a meeting with someone in the unit planning department tomorrow so will see what the reality is. Bear in mind the amount of money about to be spent on platform extensions for 6 car 331 operation.

 

[jonesy3001]

Are all the 331/0s moving over here or just a select number?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Are all the 331/0s moving over here or just a select number?

Well there's 31 /0s (total 93 carriages) and 12 /1s (total 48 carriages)
if all /1s were to be changed to double /0s, you'd only need 24 of the 31.

I'd expect not all of them to go over, that'd probably cause issues on the Manchester side until WMT 323s are free.

 

[jonesy3001]

So what's happened with this rolling stock management programme that was mentioned in January or is it just a yearly thing northern do.

 

[Geeves]

Seeing as Northern is under the government wing now surely it's the DFT pulling the strings everywhere regards to the 350s? I mean what is worse press, 333s going bye bye or rows and rows of 350s in storage?

 

[D365]

Seeing as Northern is under the government wing now surely it's the DFT pulling the strings everywhere regards to the 350s? I mean what is worse press, 333s going bye bye or rows and rows of 350s in storage?

Mistype, or are you actually considering the 333s?

 

[Geeves]

Just regards to the post above on 350s. If 350s go on the triangle 333s will definitely go (for scrap). It's 333s that are having parts issues not 323s. 350s are about to go into store at various locations despite being much newer.

 

[jonesy3001]

Best of using the 350s compared to the 323s and 333s since they are 4 car units.

 

[D365]

Best of using the 350s compared to the 323s and 333s since they are 4 car units.

The 333s are four car units...

 

[Greybeard33]

Just regards to the post above on 350s. If 350s go on the triangle 333s will definitely go (for scrap). It's 333s that are having parts issues not 323s. 350s are about to go into store at various locations despite being much newer.

350s are shorter trains than 333s (81m long versus 94m), so would reduce passenger capacity on the triangle.

 

[Neptune]

Just regards to the post above on 350s. If 350s go on the triangle 333s will definitely go (for scrap). It's 333s that are having parts issues not 323s. 350s are about to go into store at various locations despite being much newer.

No they don’t have parts issues. This is all the usual 350 wibble.

 

[Geeves]

No they don’t have parts issues. This is all the usual 350 wibble.

350s coming up here is likely the wibble part but there's been 333 stopped for years on end or there was, wasn't it to do with parts?

 

[jonesy3001]

Cracks in the chassis or something like that, think 333009 was one that got repaired.

 

[InkyScrolls]

I've heard that the exchange of 3 and 4 car 331s across the Pennines will definitely be taking place for December 2023. (3 cars heading east to form 6 car trains, 4 car units all moving west) Will cost Northern in the region of £6,000 per unit to move them.

Liverpool to Manchester Airport will all be 4 car 331s with 323s no longer used on this route except possibly the odd service for stock movement. 323s to be used on Liverpool to Wigan stoppers from December.

Then you have heard wrongly. At my depot we've been told that won't happen till 2025 at the earliest.

The accompanying change will be 333s moving to Doncaster, but training hasn't even begun there yet. There is also no MoW for 6-car services on the Triangle as of yet.

Are the 333s fitted with this asdo, whatever that means, as most platforms only fit 4 car trains.

They are not.

No they don’t have parts issues. This is all the usual 350 wibble.

Indeed. There is no intention to scrap the 333s anytime soon.

 

[Neptune]

Current plans:-

3 car 331’s are coming east in December but 6 car operation not happening until at least May 24 if not Dec 24. This is due to a requirement for power upgrades and the completion of the platform lengthening programme. 3 cars will cycle around Bradford FS with the LDS-ILK service cycling with LDS - SKI using 4 car units requiring an overhaul of crew/unit diagrams.

As for the 350 rumour. Forget it, it’s utter tosh.

 

[skyhigh]

Cracks in the chassis or something like that, think 333009 was one that got repaired.

The whole fleet is currently undergoing body repair work so there is absolutely no plan to withdraw them, it is wibble.

Menston is up the road from me so I will have a look next time I'm up that way.

I wouldn't bother, nothing has happened yet.

 

[jonesy3001]

Current plans:-

3 car 331’s are coming east in December but 6 car operation not happening until at least May 24 if not Dec 24. This is due to a requirement for power upgrades and the completion of the platform lengthening programme. 3 cars will cycle around Bradford FS with the LDS-ILK service cycling with LDS - SKI using 4 car units requiring an overhaul of crew/unit diagrams.

As for the 350 rumour. Forget it, it’s utter tosh.

Anything about the 323s?