NR Shipley platform extensions application

[30907]

https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co...nned-extend-platforms-district-rail-stations/
Burley and Menston are also mentioned but they are straightforward.

...“The current length of Platform 1 is 103.5 metres. The current length of platform 4 is 99 metres.

“Therefore, we propose to extend platform 1 by 45 metres at its western end (in the direction of Keighley). We also propose to extend platform 4 by 100 metres at its eastern end (Leeds direction). This additional length will also cater for the LNER Bradford - London train.”

The work will also involve another access point to platform 4 and the creation of new waiting shelters at both platforms.

P2 (Down Skipton) isn't mentioned as there is no easy option there - it will have to be SDO.
P4 work will allow LNER to use it from London which will help operationally (but may not suit the passengers so much!).
I am guessing that the additional access will be from the Windhill (East) side.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Surprised that the LNER is used to justify the P4 extension, as the down London has worked "wrong line" and used P3 (which is much longer) for decades without issue.
It seems a bit wasteful to have two full-length platforms on that side of the triangle for just a couple of services per day.

 

[quantinghome]

It's a welcome move but it seems odd that only a few stations are getting platform extensions, and then only some of the platforms. Why extend only one platform at Menston, what's happening at Ben Rhydding, Baildon, and Airedale line stations? Is it because only certain bits need planning permission, or are there more applications in preparation?

It also appears that ASDO is planned to be used. This is a note from the Burley plans (https://planning.bradford.gov.uk/on...RAL_ARRANGEMENT_PLATFORMS_1_AND_2-7263882.pdf)



Looks like they are rehabilitating a small length of Platform 2 and then stopping because there's a cabinet in the way:

 

[59CosG95]

It's a welcome move but it seems odd that only a few stations are getting platform extensions, and then only some of the platforms. Some stations like Guiseley have out of use lengths on their existing platforms which can be rehabilitated, but why extend only one platform at Menston, what's happening at Ben Rhydding, Baildon, and Airedale line stations? Is it because only certain bits need planning permission, or are there more applications in preparation?

Nothing for Guiseley on Leeds CC's website.
Nothing yet for Ben Rhydding, Baildon nor any of the other Airedale stations within Bradford Council's boundaries. Cononley & Skipton have nothing either (they're within Craven DC's boundaries).
Menston does also have an Access For All scheme, with an application lodged last year (and prior approval granted), although I'm not sure what bearing that has on the work to extend the platforms.

 

[bluenoxid]

Is anything expected to be needed at Skipton? I assume Keighley will not require any work either.

Craven DC will cease to exist next week as North Yorkshire Council is formed. I expect the planning systems will just lift and shift into one

 

[30907]

Surprised that the LNER is used to justify the P4 extension, as the down London has worked "wrong line" and used P3 (which is much longer) for decades without issue.
It seems a bit wasteful to have two full-length platforms on that side of the triangle for just a couple of services per day.

But when the all-day London Bradford service starts it will be a different matter (LNER won't want to commit to 5 car working).

 

[Northern_guard]

But when the all-day London Bradford service starts it will be a different matter (LNER won't want to commit to 5 car working).

All day service to Bradford?

 

[30907]

Was part of the next package IIRC. Whether it will happen....

 

[Halish Railway]

There are a few markers like the one pictured to the east of platform 2 (Down Ilkley) at Burley-in-Wharfedale, most likely indicating the position of the extended platform.



One other thing about this is that has it been indicated what rolling stock will be used on the Leeds to Doncaster services in the absence of 331/1s? The choices are a single or pair of 331/0s, or a Class 333. With Bradford to Skipton and Ilkley going down to hourly from May, there should be at least one 333 freed up for familiarisation runs for Leeds and Doncaster train crews should 333s take over these services.

 

[jonesy3001]

I did see planning permission for lifts and a new footbridge to be installed at Menston but not seen anything happening yet.

 

[quantinghome]

Notification has also now gone in for reinstating lengths of disused platform at Guiseley.

 

[InkyScrolls]

I'm intrigued by the apparent reference to 5-car trains. At present we (Northern operational staff) have been led to believe that 6-car trains will become the norm on Aire- and Wharfedale services serving Leeds, formed of 2x331/0s. Quite where five carriages could come from I'm not sure.

It is also of dubious benefit, given that the current 4-car services are rarely, if ever, truly rammed. Full and standing occasionally but only if there's been a cancellation at rush-hour.

 

[D6975]

I'm intrigued by the apparent reference to 5-car trains. At present we (Northern operational staff) have been led to believe that 6-car trains will become the norm on Aire- and Wharfedale services serving Leeds, formed of 2x331/0s. Quite where five carriages could come from I'm not sure.

It is also of dubious benefit, given that the current 4-car services are rarely, if ever, truly rammed. Full and standing occasionally but only if there's been a cancellation at rush-hour.

Looking at the figures in that table, I suspect that it means ASDO with 5 cars of 6 opening doors, rather than a 5 car train.

 

[oscarthecat92]

Are they going to be extending some of the other short platforms such as Saltaire and Steeton as well?

 

[InkyScrolls]

Looking at the figures in that table, I suspect that it means ASDO with 5 cars of 6 opening doors, rather than a 5 car train.

Hmm, that would make more sense! Strangely worded though.

Are they going to be extending some of the other short platforms such as Saltaire and Steeton as well?

And Kirkstall, Apperley, Crossflatts, Cononley (on the Up), Skipton (platform 1), Ilkley (to accommodate two trains in one platform, as happens overnight), Frizinghall, Bradford F. Sq. (platform 3)..?

 

[jonesy3001]

Did see a notice up at menston for platform lengthening near the steps on platform 2, when I was there on wednesday morning.

 

[Halish Railway]

And Kirkstall, Apperley, Crossflatts, Cononley (on the Up), Skipton (platform 1), Ilkley (to accommodate two trains in one platform, as happens overnight), Frizinghall, Bradford F. Sq. (platform 3)..?

They can work around the short platforms at Ilkley by having the first and last trains of the day be worked by single units which couple to or detach from another unit at some point in their diagram. I don't think that the 06:02 Ilkley to Leeds would ever justify a 6 carriage train - It can couple up to another 331/0 at Leeds and go on to work a number of rush hour services.

I don't see any need for the platforms at Frizinghall to be lengthened given the lack of demand on the Bradford branch and the existence of the SDO workaround. Platform 3 at Forster Square would make sense if ever a 6 carriage train made it to Bradford, allowing both cabs to be platformed at a terminus station.

 

[InkyScrolls]

They can work around the short platforms at Ilkley by having the first and last trains of the day be worked by single units which couple to or detach from another unit at some point in their diagram. I don't think that the 06:02 Ilkley to Leeds would ever justify a 6 carriage train - It can couple up to another 331/0 at Leeds and go on to work a number of rush hour services.

I don't see any need for the platforms at Frizinghall to be lengthened given the lack of demand on the Bradford branch and the existence of the SDO workaround. Platform 3 at Forster Square would make sense if ever a 6 carriage train made it to Bradford, allowing both cabs to be platformed at a terminus station.

I don't think  any Triangle service justifies six carriages, for that matter!

 

[Halish Railway]

I don't think  any Triangle service justifies six carriages, for that matter!

I think the Leeds to Skipton services certainly do, maybe not the Leeds to Ilkley services.

 

[Neptune]

I don't think  any Triangle service justifies six carriages, for that matter!

It’s already planned, costed and being implemented from long before covid hit so it’s happening (the millions of pounds spent at Leeds station for one reason).

Have you noticed passenger numbers climbing back up, especially at peak times? I don’t know if you remember the triangle pre covid but 4 cars was seldom enough back then and on current forecasts 6 car 331’s with their lower seating density and higher standing capacity than 4 car 333’s are seen as better units for those particular commuter lines.

Bradford services will remain 4 cars alongside the Donny services once the crews there have signed 333’a.

 

[Snow1964]

I guess 143m is based on 6 x 23m vehicles, which is 138m, then the usual extra 5m to give bit of flexibility in exact stop point.

120m is obviously 5 x 23m plus extra 5m. A length they have adopted here in Wessex too, but which seems to cause a few problems when occasional train is formed of 2x3cars or is an intercity set that is 5x26m, so nearer 130m.

 

[Allwinter_Kit]

I think the Leeds to Skipton services certainly do, maybe not the Leeds to Ilkley services.

Leeds - Skipton are (from my anecdotal experience) back to being properly busy in the peak and are certainly busier off-peak than before. Given the plans for housing growth and whatnot, extending the trains is definitely a good shout - especially when they are lopping 25% of capacity off half the route by dropping Skipton - Bradford to once an hour.

Can't we get a Skipton - Ilkley instead of the cancelled Skipton - Bradford? Yes not as fast as the old Bolton Abbey / Addingham line, but probably still better than the bus for those along the route!

 

[InkyScrolls]

Can't we get a Skipton - Ilkley instead of the cancelled Skipton - Bradford? Yes not as fast as the old Bolton Abbey / Addingham line, but probably still better than the bus for those along the route!

I looked into this last year. The paths are available, just about, as long as the service skipped the 'smaller' stations along the Aire - e.g. Saltaire, Crossflatts, Steeton & Silsden and Cononley. However given that the bus between Skipton and Ilkley takes around 25 mins, and the train would take 45, there doesn't seem much benefit to running it through to Skipton. And the pathing is not available to turn the service at Keighley North Jct.

Yes in theory, no in practice.

 

[Ken H]

Leeds - Skipton are (from my anecdotal experience) back to being properly busy in the peak and are certainly busier off-peak than before. Given the plans for housing growth and whatnot, extending the trains is definitely a good shout - especially when they are lopping 25% of capacity off half the route by dropping Skipton - Bradford to once an hour.

Can't we get a Skipton - Ilkley instead of the cancelled Skipton - Bradford? Yes not as fast as the old Bolton Abbey / Addingham line, but probably still better than the bus for those along the route!

What buses? They are cutting the to every 2 hrs.

 

[Halish Railway]

I guess 143m is based on 6 x 23m vehicles, which is 138m, then the usual extra 5m to give bit of flexibility in exact stop point.

120m is obviously 5 x 23m plus extra 5m. A length they have adopted here in Wessex too, but which seems to cause a few problems when occasional train is formed of 2x3cars or is an intercity set that is 5x26m, so nearer 130m.

A pair of 331/0s is 142.8 meters long.

 

[MichaelTrains]

They can work around the short platforms at Ilkley by having the first and last trains of the day be worked by single units which couple to or detach from another unit at some point in their diagram. I don't think that the 06:02 Ilkley to Leeds would ever justify a 6 carriage train - It can couple up to another 331/0 at Leeds and go on to work a number of rush hour services.

I don't see any need for the platforms at Frizinghall to be lengthened given the lack of demand on the Bradford branch and the existence of the SDO workaround. Platform 3 at Forster Square would make sense if ever a 6 carriage train made it to Bradford, allowing both cabs to be platformed at a terminus station.

I don't think you can do anything with platform three because of the way the banking just suddenly sticks out as you head towards the Hamme Strass bridge.

I might be wrong but I'm certain I saw something in the T&A saying platform three couldn't be extended.

The sooner Forster Square is redeveloped the better. It's one of the most unwelcoming stations in West Yorkshire IMO.

A big terminus station with very little in the way of facilities.

 

[InkyScrolls]

I wouldn't call BDQ a 'big terminus'. It only has services to Leeds, Ilkley and Skipton after all (apart from the daily SuX to Carnforth!).

 

[xotGD]

very little in the way of facilities

There's all those tents just outside the station if you miss the last train home.

It only has services to Leeds, Ilkley and Skipton

And LNER to King's Cross!