How many seconds early do trains from your TOC leave?

[tannedfrog]

Virgin at Euston for example, seem to want to lock the doors at 06:58:00 for a 07:00:00 departure

FGW at Paddington, 06:59:20

FCC at small stations would lock them at 07:00:00 I think

Are these definite policies by different TOCs and do commuter TOCs have different policies on the matter? Thanks

 

[Nym]

Northern operate a 30 second policy, and TPE 45 second or 30 second depending on what posters you're looking at...

 

[TDK]

Virgin at Euston for example, seem to want to lock the doors at 06:58:00 for a 07:00:00 departure

FGW at Paddington, 06:59:20

FCC at small stations would lock them at 07:00:00 I think

Are these definite policies by different TOCs and do commuter TOCs have different policies on the matter? Thanks

Depending on how many doors are open on the traction I drive it's either 20 or 15 seconds before departure and my train departs on time or a couple of seconds behind time. The reason there is a difference is that if all the doors are closed you get interlock immediately as the doors are self closing after a certain amount of time!

 

[YorkshireRider]

At Kings X on EC it goes off the depature board at 2 mins before and the doors are closed about 45-50 seconds before.

 

[Minilad]

Very much depends on the station and the traction Anything from 40 seconds to on time

 

[Geezertronic]

Been discussed to death this one...

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=53282

 

[Zoe]

Even if the doors are closed/locked 30/40 seconds before departure, some stations may deny access to the platforms some time before this. For example once I was prevented from entering the platform at Paddington even though they hadn't started dispatching the train.

 

[Minilad]

Been discussed to death this one...

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=53282

And will probably descend into the same arguments !

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Probably. Man who missed train says trains should wait for him, man who was on the train already or on the platform when the train arrived says it shouldnt. If you are a savvy enough traveller to have found yourself on this forum here is a tip: be on the platform at least a minute before the advertised departure, it will save you a ton of hassle.

 

[TSR :D]

Not my TOC, but I was on XC train when it departed nearly 10 minutes early!

 

[Zoe]

Not my TOC, but I was on XC train when it departed nearly 10 minutes early!

Was it set down only at the station in question?

 

[Minilad]

Not my TOC, but I was on XC train when it departed nearly 10 minutes early!

What train and where from ?

 

[Cliveblackpool]

During BR days the working timetable departure was usually 1 minute later than the passenger's timetable. Eg if the public timetable said depart at 11.23, the driver's copy had arr 11.22 / dep 11.24.
Seemed sensible to me!
You have to also allow more time if you require tickets etc today. Only one window open, someone struggling with card payment/enquiry etc!

 

[The Planner]

It still is in many many cases.

 

[Ivo]

FGW have recently started announcing at Bristol TM that doors are locked 40 seconds before departure. The same day I heard this, it happened precisely zero times - I doubt any were greater than 20.

It still is in many many cases.

You could most certainly confirm this but I find this is especially true at the destination - only, the WTTs are ahead of ours.

 

[The Planner]

Destination PTT are often anything from +1 to +5 on the WTT. You cannot (shouldn't, as I have no doubt some eagle eyes person will find one...) have a PTT arrival time less than WTT or a PTT departure more than WTT.

 

[Stewart]

I remember arriving about 10 mins late for a cross country going from Leeds to Sheffield (and beyond). It set off about two mins later..and took 25 mins rather than the usual 40 to get there.

Basically, they should all wait for me

 

[tsr]

At Redhill station, which has Southern, FGW and FCC services, there are large posters saying that trains "may" have their doors closed 30 seconds before departure, but it's rarely more than 15, when I think about it. Indeed, I have luckily managed to get on within a few seconds of the scheduled departure time on many an occasion, because the very considerate (or possibly slightly laid back) dispatch staff will often check the stairs to see if anybody like me is climbing up and wants to catch the train!

Of course, a good number of services can be caught at least 30 minutes after their scheduled departure time...

 

[Greenback]

Since the last thread and discussion on this subject, I have been watching the FGW HST departures from Swansea. The doors are invariably locked no earlier than 30 seconds before the departure time, and less if someone is hurrying for the train (the guard allows people to board at the back door, which is, of course, easier in a terminus).

The train itself never leaves earlier than a second or two before the advertised time of departure.

 

[tsr]

Since the ast thread and discussion on this subject, I have been watching the FGW HST departures from Swansea. The doors are invariably locked no earlier than 30 seconds before the departure time, and less if someone is hurrying for the train (the guard allows people to board at the back door, which is, of course, easier in a terminus).

The train itself never leaves earlier than a second or two before the advertised time of departure.

It doesn't get HSTs, but London Victoria's staff also keep a lookout for people hurrying, and the guards don't seem to mind. I have overheard exchanges between members of staff who will regularly shout to each other to check that nobody is running towards the train down the concourse. This only seems to happen on the higher-numbered platforms, though. I think this is primarily because people waiting at the departure boards on the main concourse have a bit of a walk to get to platforms like P19, and they may not have realised that there are smaller matrix displays further towards the platforms.

 

[Greenback]

The guards and platfrom staff might encourage people to walk quickly, but that is it. It seems that if someone is on the platform they will not close the doors, but if someone appears from the concourse after the thirty seconds before departure point, they may not always get on.

 

[Johnny Lewis]

Destination PTT are often anything from +1 to +5 on the WTT. You cannot (shouldn't, as I have no doubt some eagle eyes person will find one...) have a PTT arrival time less than WTT or a PTT departure more than WTT.

You CAN have an advertised arrival which is LATER than a working arrival - this is frequently done at terminating stations, usually to improve performance and passenger charter figures, where only the arrival time at destination determines a train's punctuality.
You CAN have an advertised arrival which is EARLIER than a working arrival - this is not so frequently done, but may be done to maintain a pattern service or to maintain a connecting allowance. It is also done where, if it were not done, it could potentially result in an advertised arrival time being later than an advertised departure time.
You CAN have an advertised departure time which is EARLIER than a working departure, and this is frequently done with a lot of inter-city services, presumably in an effort to make them more likely to depart "on time". It is also done to maintain pattern services.

You CANNOT have an advertised departure time which is LATER than a working departure, as this really would cause passengers to miss trains! It should in theory never happen, as TPS (the replacement for TSDB) should automatically throw out any train schedule where this has inadvertantly been generated.

 

[The Planner]

Isn't that what I said then ??

You CAN have an advertised arrival which is EARLIER than a working arrival - this is not so frequently done, but may be done to maintain a pattern service or to maintain a connecting allowance. It is also done where, if it were not done, it could potentially result in an advertised arrival time being later than an advertised departure time.

It shouldn't be done at all at terminal stations as what is to stop (and which it has been tried) a TOC sticking a -3 arrival differential on train to decrease a journey time ?? The RotP/TPR explicitly say you can't in section 6.1

It should in theory never happen, as TPS (the replacement for TSDB) should automatically throw out any train schedule where this has inadvertantly been generated.

Aaah yes, TPS....

 

[185]

Personal belief regardless of any instructions from these 2-bit companies...
Unless dispatched,

At :40 - 20 seconds before dep time close doors.
Gives you few more seconds to shout runners on, or to hang on for anyone who looks like they are making an effort. Let them close for the plonks who assume we will wait while they amble slowly along.

At :55 Buzz buzz to driver.

At :00 ish, driver should take power (assuming he's there/not in coffee shop/awake).

:20 Train should clear platform.

Some train companies who insist on 90 seconds etc for normal power door stock are just stupid and trying to manipulate performance figures. They do not belong on the railway.

It's understandable to have at most one minute for slam door HSTs etc, but nothing more.

 

[The Planner]

Some train companies who insist on 90 seconds etc for normal power door stock are just stupid and trying to manipulate performance figures. They do not belong on the railway.

It's understandable to have at most one minute for slam door HSTs etc, but nothing more.

Most TOCs then if that is the case !! 2 minutes is the norm for Pendos and 1½ for Voyagers/HST/LHCS.

 

[TSR :D]

Was it set down only at the station in question?

What train and where from ?

Starting from CDF going to BHM where I set off. This train was for Nottingham.

 

[Minilad]

Starting from CDF going to BHM where I set off. This train was for Nottingham.

Then I find it hard to believe it would have left 10 early from either CDF or BHM

 

[O L Leigh]

Personal belief regardless of any instructions from these 2-bit companies...
Unless dispatched,

At :40 - 20 seconds before dep time close doors.
Gives you few more seconds to shout runners on, or to hang on for anyone who looks like they are making an effort. Let them close for the plonks who assume we will wait while they amble slowly along.

At :55 Buzz buzz to driver.

At :00 ish, driver should take power (assuming he's there/not in coffee shop/awake).

Cheeky wotsit!!

:20 Train should clear platform.

Ah, don't you love these "ideal world" scenarios...?

I got abused last weekend. I'd stopped, done my station duties and started to shut the doors (on time at XX:XX:55, as is my custom). As the warbles sounded three people appeared on the platform. I shouted at them to board quickly and gave another door release. Two of them ran but the third didn't, so I assumed that she didn't want my train and shut up again. Just as I got interlock she ambled over to me and asked "Are you really closing the doors?". I said yes and told her the next train would be in 15 minutes. Some geezer on the platform had seen and heard all this and, because she was young and pretty, started yelling the odds and telling me that I was "...taking a f***ing liberty" and "...out of order" and "...a f***ing c***".

And this is the problem. You can aim to dispatch at a certain time in order to preserve your timekeeping, but things do happen from time to time that will prevent it. I'm sure that, like me, every guard/dispatcher/DOO driver has a system to ensure on-time departures, but with the best will in the world you're fighting a losing battle.

Consequently you can understand why some TOCs try and get the doors closed as soon as possible. It builds in a contingency and allows the train to leave bang on time no matter what happens. That said, I can understand why closing up early can be a problem. If you've arrived in time for a train and it's still there, it must be frustrating not to be able to board.

Early departures, however, are rare. I've never been given the right away more than a handful of seconds early except for one time at Stansted Airport when the fire alarms went off. When that happens it is policy to clear the station, so I was sent out almost immediately and had to wait time further along the line.

O L Leigh

 

[ValleyLines142]

HSTs from Cardiff to London are shut 30 seconds before departure, but Valley Lines services depart whenever they want to quite frankly! :P

 

[JoeGJ1984]

I wonder if request stops would mess up timings - what if a train arrives at a request stop early and there is nobody around - are the crew meant to wait to the advertised/WTT time or do they just carry on through? What if there are several request stops in a row, such as between Bangor and Holyhead or on the Heart of Wales line?