How many TOCs run DOO trains?

[martin2345uk]

This issue really interests me having read the threads about it.

Can anyone tell me, is it the case that some TOCs run DOO and some don't, or do TOCs run some services DOO and then some with a guard?

Wondering how widespread the practice is... As a passenger I always prefer to have a guard on the train!

 

[Urban Gateline]

This issue really interests me having read the threads about it.

Can anyone tell me, is it the case that some TOCs run DOO and some don't, or do TOCs run some services DOO and then some with a guard?

Wondering how widespread the practice is...

FCC, Scotrail, NXEA, Southern, C2C, Chiltern, London Overground, FGW and Southeastern run some DOO services, there must be some more that I've forgotten!

FCC and Heathrow Connect run full DOO.

TOC's with NO DOO at all: SWT, Northern, TPE, Virgin, East Coast, Crosscountry, London Midland, ATW, Grand Central, FHT, East Midlands Trains, and Merseyrail

As a passenger I always prefer to have a guard on the train!

Glad to hear it, I agree too!

 

[transportphoto]

All FCC services are DOO, some NXEA...

 

[Aictos]

Not the answer you want to hear but too many trains are DOO today as a example I would warmly welcome SPT type Ticket Inspectors having a presence on all trains currently operated under DOO conditions but would oppose their introduction on services currently operate using both Guard and Driver.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Merseyrail?

 

[Skoodle]

LOROL run East London Line and Watford DC DOO, the rest with a guard.

 

[ushawk]

Think FGW run a couple of DOO services - the Greenford shuttle is the only one i can think of at the moment (if it has a guard ive never seen them).

 

[scotsman]

Not the answer you want to hear but too many trains are DOO today as a example I would warmly welcome SPT type Ticket Inspectors having a presence on all trains currently operated under DOO conditions but would oppose their introduction on services currently operate using both Guard and Driver.

Very well said...might want to give those guys some stab vests, though.

Expansion of DOO should be banned in all new franchise agreements - it serves to benefit no-one. A human presence is shown to increase confidence among passengers, to be fair however, most passengers can't tell an RPI from a Conductor. The lost revenue caused by the employment of more Guards/RPIs would soon be recouped by the deterrent effect on fare evaders.

 

[Ivo]

I like how everyone's forgotten my home route

Except in 12-car formation, as I learned recently on here, all c2c services are DOO.

 

[WestCoast]

Merseyrail?

No, they have non-commercial guards. Well, I say that, but apparently they can check tickets (and they do it occasionally) and alert revenue staff if necessary.

 

[notadriver]

Heathrow Express and the Javelin HS1 service.

 

[142094]

Tyne and Wear Metro.

 

[WestCoast]

Tyne and Wear Metro.

I suppose a part of it is on the National Rail network, but it's not really a National Rail 'TOC'.

If we're talking Light Rail networks, well all of them! Sheffield Supertram, Nottingham Express Transit and Midland Metro tram systems have fare collectors, but that's all they are.

Exception being the DLR, which is GOO - Guard Only Operation.

 

[150222]

FCC, NXEA, Southern, C2C, Chiltern, London Overground and Southeastern run some DOO services, there must be some more that I've forgotten! I don't think any TOC runs full DOO.

TOC's with NO DOO at all: SWT, Virgin, Northern, TPE, FGW...



Glad to hear it, I agree too!

All FCC services are DOO. Some of FGW's Thames valley services are DOO. Also the Scotrail Strathclyde commuter network is DOO (All electric services exept to North Berwick).

 

[paulravuslante]

Think FGW run a couple of DOO services - the Greenford shuttle is the only one i can think of at the moment (if it has a guard ive never seen them).

The stoppers between Paddington and Oxford are also DOO.

Heathrow Express

Heathrow Express / Connect are DOO in the sense that the driver will lead an evacuation and be in control of opening / closing the doors (on the instruction of the platform dispatch staff at Paddington and Heathrow stations). Both services have to have customer service (ticket inspection) staff on board if the service is entering the tunnels at Heathrow, who will assist the driver in the event of an emergency.

 

[142094]

I suppose a part of it is on the National Rail network, but it's not really a National Rail 'TOC'.

It is a murky world if we're getting into the debate about whether the Metro is a TOC or not - I don't think there is a clear answer anywhere on this.

 

[150222]

This issue really interests me having read the threads about it.

Can anyone tell me, is it the case that some TOCs run DOO and some don't, or do TOCs run some services DOO and then some with a guard?

Wondering how widespread the practice is... As a passenger I always prefer to have a guard on the train!

Fully DOO:First Capital Connect, Heathrow Express/Connect.
Partly DOO:National Express East Anglia, Southeastern, Southern, First Great Western, C2C, Chiltern Railways, First Scotrail, London Overground.
No DOO: Virgin. East Coast, Crosscountry, London Midland, South West Trains, Island Line, Arriva Trains Wales, Grand Central, First Hull Trains, East Midlands Trains, Northern, Merseyrail, First TransPennine Express.

 

[transportphoto]

Fully DOO:FCC, Heathrow Express/Connect.
Partly DOO:NXEA, Southeastern, Southern, FGW, C2C, Chiltern, Scotrail, London Overground.
No DOO: Virgin. East Coast, Crosscountry, London Midland, South West Trains, ATW, Grand Central, FHT, East Midlands Trains, Northern, Merseyrail, FTPE.

Isn't c2c fully DOO?

TP

 

[150222]

Isn't c2c fully DOO?

TP

It is exept the 12 car workings have a non-commercial guard on them.

 

[transportphoto]

It is exept the 12 car workings have a non-commercial guard on them.

Really? Learn something new everyday!

 

[Eagle]

It is a murky world if we're getting into the debate about whether the Metro is a TOC or not - I don't think there is a clear answer anywhere on this.

There's no question. It clearly isn't a TOC as it's not part of National Rail.

 

[scotsman]

All FCC services are DOO. Some of FGW's Thames valley services are DOO. Also the Scotrail Strathclyde commuter network is DOO (All electric services exept to North Berwick).

No, Edinburgh Waverley - Glasgow Central (via Carstairs) services have a Conductor

 

[Eeveevolve]

When TPE run in double formation, one half is without a guard....

Dont quite know if that counts??

 

[WestCoast]

When TPE run in double formation, one half is without a guard....

Dont quite know if that counts??

No, I don't think it does. Although, one compartment is indeed without a member of staff that can attend to passenger matters.

Do they always run with just one guard in the rear portion? The services that split at Preston - the TPE Manchester Airport to Barrow-in-Furness and Blackpool North carry two guards (I think).

 

[150222]

No, Edinburgh Waverley - Glasgow Central (via Carstairs) services have a Conductor

Yes those as well. But they are just 380's reterning to Polmadie after working Dunbar/North Berwick's.

 

[notadriver]

There's no question. It clearly isn't a TOC as it's not part of National Rail.

What about London Overground (which is run by tfl)?

 

[Aictos]

The First Great Western service between Maidenhead and Marlow via Bourne End uses both Guard and Driver as the Guard is responsible for the token to allow the service to move between Bourne End and Marlow as that part of the line is operated under the one engine in section rule.

 

[driver9000]

What about London Overground (which is run by tfl)?

There is a forum member who is a Guard on LO.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Do they always run with just one guard in the rear portion? The services that split at Preston - the TPE Manchester Airport to Barrow-in-Furness and Blackpool North carry two guards (I think).

When the train splits at Preston the second Guard joins the train there although sometimes both portions get a fresh crew. There is no need to have a Guard in both portions of a train formed of non corridor stock.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

No DOO: Virgin. East Coast, Crosscountry, London Midland, South West Trains, Island Line, Arriva Trains Wales, Grand Central, First Hull Trains, East Midlands Trains, Northern, Merseyrail, First TransPennine Express.

Some if not all of these TOCs may run their ECS trains as DOO. Just to add an element of confusion into the mix

 

[142094]

not part of National Rail.

Define National Rail (and provide a source).

 

[Daz28]

Are Chiltern the only TOC who run services which are part DOO, part guard?

Would this route provide a useful comparison of the safety of DOO versus guard protected services?