How to identify a train from a reservation ticket.

[generalvegitable]

Hello all. Long time no post.

A little while ago I bought an old first class seat from a mk2 coach off eBay, it's a rather nice leather backed seat with an orange stripy moquette. This morning when I was measuring up the base to mount on something to use as an armchair a reservation ticket fell out of it. The ticket shows it being seat 01 in coach A on the 09.40 Kings Cross to Leeds on the 12th of April 1987, reserved for the duration of the journey, clearly the best seat!

When I bought the seat I knew nothing about it's history, other than it was a first class seat in a MK2 coach, and I haven't been able to identify what variant of MK2 it came from, or what sort of a life it would have had.

So my question to you is, based on that information, does anyone know anything about what that train could have been made up of? or even be able to say which variant of MK2 it most likely came from? and from that what kind of working life it would have had before it retired to live out it's days in my living room?

Kind regards.

 

[StephenHunter]

Mind posting some photos?

 

[generalvegitable]

Of course. my apologies. completely forgot.

 

[StephenHunter]

Mark 2s operated KGX to Leeds in 1987? I thought HSTs dominated by then?

 

[Darandio]

Mark 2s operated KGX to Leeds in 1987? I thought HSTs dominated by then?

There were still a couple of Sundays only loco hauled services then. The date in the OP was a Sunday.

 

[eastwestdivide]

By then, you’d expect it to be a Mk2d aircon.
You might be able to find carriage working notices showing the booked composition via the

BR Loco-hauled Coaching Stock from 1948​

group to be found at:

main groups.io Group

A group for railway enthusiasts, professionals (past and present) historians and modellers to discuss and share information about the locomotive-hauled coaching stock of British Railways from nationalisation (1948-present). Multiple units are outside the scope of the group. The group covers...

brcoachingstock.groups.io

 

[Darandio]

By then, you’d expect it to be a Mk2d aircon.

You'd have thought so but i'm looking at images of such workings that year and it's mostly non-aircon!

 

[generalvegitable]

By then, you’d expect it to be a Mk2d aircon.

I thought that the Mk2 aircons had IC70 seats (or the 1st class equivalent)? This seat looks older to me?

 

[Darandio]

I'm fairly certain the seat in question is from a non-aircon Mk2. I'm also convinced it's not actually from first class, i'm sure they had leather headrests.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I thought that the Mk2 aircons had IC70 seats (or the 1st class equivalent)? This seat looks older to me?

IC70s first appeared in the Mk2Fs. Highly unlikely we're talking anything other than a 2D.

 

[generalvegitable]

I think I've just found a source that might help identify the type of coach. It appears to have come from a MK2c FO, I understand that there are none currently in operational condition. The same basic seat seems to be used in a MK2C SO (in 2+1 layout) and MK2D FO with different seat coverings.

(my source including a photograph: http://www.easternrailservices.co.uk/news.htm)

 

[gg1]

I thought that the Mk2 aircons had IC70 seats (or the 1st class equivalent)? This seat looks older to me?

Some aircon mk2s on cross country services in the period 1988 to 1990 certainly had older style seats, can't speak for ECML mk2s but as they were used for secondary working it's not unreasonable to assume the older style seats were still around there too.

 

[Darandio]

I think I've just found a source that might help identify the type of coach. It appears to have come from a MK2c FO, I understand that there are none currently in operational condition. The same basic seat seems to be used in a MK2C SO (in 2+1 layout) and MK2D FO with different seat coverings.

(my source including a photograph: http://www.easternrailservices.co.uk/news.htm)

Yes, I think you've cracked it there. Blows my non-first class theory out of the water too! Now all you need to find out is what worked the 09:40 service that morning.

 

[hexagon789]

By then, you’d expect it to be a Mk2d aircon.
You might be able to find carriage working notices showing the booked composition via the

BR Loco-hauled Coaching Stock from 1948​

group to be found at:

main groups.io Group

A group for railway enthusiasts, professionals (past and present) historians and modellers to discuss and share information about the locomotive-hauled coaching stock of British Railways from nationalisation (1948-present). Multiple units are outside the scope of the group. The group covers...

brcoachingstock.groups.io

Yes, I think you've cracked it there. Blows my non-first class theory out of the water too! Now all you need to find out is what worked the 09:40 service that morning.

The 0940 SuO KGX-LDS was booked an HST TRUB set in the Winter 1986 timetable (valid until May 1987), so I don't think it's going to help unfortunately.

 

[Darandio]

The 0940 SuO KGX-LDS was booked an HST TRUB set in the Winter 1986 timetable (valid until May 1987), so I don't think it's going to help unfortunately.

Plenty of gen sheets showing loco hauled workings vice HST around that time though, just nothing on that service for that date. The majority of loco hauled subs I did see were a 47 with a mixed rake of Mk2's, often with a single aircon embedded within. I'd imagine this morning was no different.

 

[hexagon789]

Plenty of gen sheets showing loco hauled workings vice HST around that time though, just nothing on that service for that date. The majority of loco hauled subs I did see were a 47 with a mixed rake of Mk2's, often with a single aircon embedded within. I'd imagine this morning was no different.

Should've been more specific - I meant trying to identify the coach type from the PTM books.

 

[6Gman]

I think I've just found a source that might help identify the type of coach. It appears to have come from a MK2c FO, I understand that there are none currently in operational condition. The same basic seat seems to be used in a MK2C SO (in 2+1 layout) and MK2D FO with different seat coverings.

(my source including a photograph: http://www.easternrailservices.co.uk/news.htm)

Weren't the Mk 2Cs used on the WCML?

 

[hexagon789]

Weren't the Mk 2Cs used on the WCML?

Yes, as new. Formed the Glasgow sets upto and slightly after electrification went live in May 1974 for one.