How will GTR recover passenger numbers

[Taunton]

Those in the "railway bubble" think the loss of custom only impacts GTR services. Out in the real world the public just see all this as "the railway", and thus there will be loss of confidence in other operators' services which are adjacent to all this. London Midland and Anglia have probably already noticed it, masked by the current diversion of those marginal between the two.

 

[Failed Unit]

People do have short memories. Has everyone stopped using Southern trains after the strikes? Didn't seem so on Saturday when I was in Brighton.

People also seem to be talking about how everything was fine before May 20. Of course it was significantly better (how could it not be?) but you have people talking as if there was never a single cancellation or late running service.

Back in the BR days it was supposedly even better, with trains brought out of sidings with a minute's notice to stand in whenever there was a problem.

What's more, besides the ironing board comments a long time ago now, most people seem to like the 700s and have taken the time to post about how good they are during disruption. With the current timetable woes, they've meant that with unacceptably large gaps in service people aren't left behind when a 700 rolls in.

The same can't be said for the trains substituted by 387s or 365s.

More than ever, people want to get on a train when they see one. Comfort has slipped down the list of priorities, but in my experience even the peak services have relatively little numbers of people standing and there's definitely evidence of people spreading out throughout the whole train and not just squashing themselves at one end, or the middle, depending on where the exits/boarding points are.

I agree the low quality interior of the 700s have slipped down peoples priorities. People still comment about how uncomfortable they are - but are more greatful to have a train running at all.

 

[Passenger John]

It has now come to the point where Mr & Mrs Passenger John have now had to desert the railway from our village in South Cambridge. Now having to use the car for trips to Cambridge (via P&R) and have now stopped visiting rail served locations for our leisure trips. Several people in the area are doing the same for business and leisure trips. I have a neighbour who used to use the railway quite often for business trips to both London and Kings Lynn now doing it all by car. just how much damage is being done to the railway in this area that people cannot trust. Not only is this having an effect locally but people are changing their habits for longer trips on the network. Some will by now made alternative arrangements and how many will return to the rails - BECAUSE WE JUST CANT GET OUT OF THE VILLAGE BY RAIL!

 

[bramling]

I agree the low quality interior of the 700s have slipped down peoples priorities. People still comment about how uncomfortable they are - but are more greatful to have a train running at all.

I don’t necessarily think comfort has gone off the agenda. Sure it’s not the most pressing issue at the moment, however don’t think that people’s dissatisfaction with the 700s has gone away. Just today I saw someone get on one, walk up and down, sit down, and then remark how he wasn’t impressed with the seating and how “they used to have tables”. Of course had he known better he could have made use of the declassified first.

Most GN users, from further out anyway, just want the old service back. They’re not that interested whether a 700 means they have less chance of getting left behind as before the timetable change getting left behind simply wasn’t a normal situation. My neighbour is a typical example - he was attracted to the area by the reputation of a high-quality rail service. He was impressed with the service as it was, and is completely bemused why such a good service has suddenly been changed. He’s very mildly interested in the idea of a through train to Gatwick once or twice a year, but would rather go without this convenience if it means his daily service is going to be less reliable or less useful to him.

 

[Abpj17]

It's a captive audience.

Commuting traffic is high - Luton and Bedford actually have pockets of affordability compared to St Albans, let alone out London.

School traffic is reasonable. No real alternatives.

off-peak traffic/against peak flow is generally into London so relatively captive given the entertainment capital....

 

[Failed Unit]

Those in the "railway bubble" think the loss of custom only impacts GTR services. Out in the real world the public just see all this as "the railway", and thus there will be loss of confidence in other operators' services which are adjacent to all this. London Midland and Anglia have probably already noticed it, masked by the current diversion of those marginal between the two.

Yes. Very true. I won’t book by rail to go to destination further afield as I can’t rely on GTR to get me to a station I can pick up the other operators service. Using the car more for circa 200 mile trips. Flying to places like Edinburgh. LNER are missing out because of this. I used to prefer taking the train to Stevenage and pick up train there. Now I need to drive to Stevenage so I may as well keep driving. I am probably fickle and get some journeys with bad traffic and I may return to the train if GTR sort the timetable. However maybe no as even if they run the full timetable the loss of the direct trains to Peterborough May keep me in the car. So LNER lose out because of GTR.

 

[greyman42]

I was travelling from London Bridge to Peterborough on a 700, but got of at Stevenage to change to a LNER service because the seats were so uncomfortable.

 

[The Ham]

I agree that people have short memories, how baby in here could tell me if the problems on SWR when it first started?

Yet trains since then have got busier and busier and by the end SWT was paying the most money in premiums to the government.

Also, people tend to be migratory in the Southeast, relatively few people will stay in an area for more than 10 years, meaning that the populations change and have no knowledge of what went before.

 

[A0wen]

Yes. Very true. I won’t book by rail to go to destination further afield as I can’t rely on GTR to get me to a station I can pick up the other operators service. Using the car more for circa 200 mile trips. Flying to places like Edinburgh. LNER are missing out because of this. I used to prefer taking the train to Stevenage and pick up train there. Now I need to drive to Stevenage so I may as well keep driving. I am probably fickle and get some journeys with bad traffic and I may return to the train if GTR sort the timetable. However maybe no as even if they run the full timetable the loss of the direct trains to Peterborough May keep me in the car. So LNER lose out because of GTR.

The decision on whether to fly or use the train when travelling from 'mid Herts' to Edinburgh is surely driven by other factors than GTR's problems though.

Time and cost being the most likely ones - and with the train being at least 4 hours each way, compared to 1h 15m for Easyjet from Luton, anyone who needs to be in Edinburgh for a day, for example on business is better off flying.

Even Stevenage to Leeds or York - you'll struggle to match the train's time if you're driving on the A1.

 

[A0wen]

I was travelling from London Bridge to Peterborough on a 700, but got of at Stevenage to change to a LNER service because the seats were so uncomfortable.

Comfort is entirely subjective. You don't like the 700s - I've travelled on a few from Faringdon to Bedford and they're fine, certainly better than the 319s which preceded them or the 317s which I used on the GN in the past.

 

[Failed Unit]

The decision on whether to fly or use the train when travelling from 'mid Herts' to Edinburgh is surely driven by other factors than GTR's problems though.

Time and cost being the most likely ones - and with the train being at least 4 hours each way, compared to 1h 15m for Easyjet from Luton, anyone who needs to be in Edinburgh for a day, for example on business is better off flying.

Even Stevenage to Leeds or York - you'll struggle to match the train's time if you're driving on the A1.

True on both points. But if you take the later example of going to Leeds / York. As you have no certainty GTR can get you to connect with the IC. Miss the connection you are 1 hour slower. Have a day like today all bets are off. (Although the A1 has accidents with the same impact as travelling with GTR at the moment.)

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

This seems to have escaped the forum's attention yesterday:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44671423

Rail operator Govia Thameslink faces being stripped of its franchises unless performance on its services in the South East of England rapidly improves, the BBC understands.
A source said the government could begin the process within weeks.
Passengers on its Thameslink and Great Northern trains have endured more than a month of disruption following the introduction of new timetables in May.
Meanwhile, commuters are to set receive compensation worth a month's travel.
Govia Thameslink Railway (GTR) - which also runs Southern and the Gatwick Express services - changed the time of every train on its timetable on 20 May.
Passengers were warned of disruption before the changes were brought in, but the implementation of the new timetable saw some services withdrawn and further cancellations without any warning.
Since then, GTR chief executive Charles Horton has resigned and Transport Secretary Chris Grayling has faced calls to stand down - as MPs from across all parties voiced their concern at the disruption caused in their constituencies

It's one of those "the BBC understands" pieces which is unattributable, but will probably be a DfT deliberate leak of some sort.
I'm not here to defend GTR, but the total lack of recognition of the DfT, NR and ORR roles in the meltdown is irritating.
The various investigations have yet to report anyway.
This is really no more than Chris Grayling said in the Commons, where he indicated GTR (but not Northern) were potentially at risk of losing the TSGN management contract (not a full franchise).
Somewhere the coverage yesterday complains that Northern has its revised timetable already, while GTR is still waiting.
I don't think that is the real situation. Northern has just cut 165 services to make the limited service "more predictable".

 

[HH]

No it didn't escape our notice. It's in at least two other threads.