HS1: London to Canterbury Tales

[RJ]

Just days after Southeastern declined to assure me that their staff would be adhering to the National Rail Conditions of Carriage (NRCoC) and National Routeing Guide (NRG) when inspecting my tickets, I've found I've started having problems where I haven't had them before. I may as well keep a record of instances where staff are creating problems where they don't need to be created.

I suggested to Southeastern that they brief their staff not to point blank reject valid tickets presented to them, instead noting them down for further investigation and using name/address details to follow it up if they're unsure. If this is what they need to do to comply with the NRCoC then I don't see an issue with it. Southeastern declined to do this in their response, although this doesn't necessarily mean that they won't do it. For the time being, it appears that Southeastern would rather use their resources creating and sustaining vexatious disputes against me they they have no hope of winning. So here we go again.

Saturday 30th November 2013:

I arrived at St Pancras circa 16:30 and showed my season ticket along with my Privilege Staff Travel Card to the gateline assistant. He looked at the documents and said that I should really buy a Priv ticket. This was as if the ticket was irrelevant and he thought I was trying to get through on my Priv alone. I said that the ticket was valid for the train I was about to board. He consulted with a colleague. They got an Avantix Mobile machine, typed in the origin/destination of my ticket and only looked at the first itinerary that came up. They said it was only valid to travel along the Coastway and that I'd have to go to Brighton to be on the correct line of route. I suspected they did not know where Martin Mill was. I commonly get the reaction from Southeastern's ticket inspection staff "Where is Martin Hill?"

With less than 10 minutes to go before the train departed, I went downstairs and bought the cheapest ticket I know of valid out of St Pancras on HS1. I returned to the gates, showed it to a gateline assistant and asked "is this one OK now?". He looked at it and said it wasn't valid, stating "We aren't in Gravesend are we?" He went off to fetch an Avantix Mobile ticket machine. Whilst he did so, I put the ticket through the barriers and got on the train. I said "Good evelin sir" to the On Board Manager and went about my business.

I got to Canterbury West at approximately 17:40 and the ticket office was shut. It's supposed to close at 19:30 on Saturdays.

Sunday 1st December 2013

So I turned up at Canterbury West this afternoon. My season ticket used to operate the barriers, but now gives an 09 error - usually denoting a failure of the magnetic strip on the rear of the ticket. So I showed it to the gateline staff. Again, I've never had an issue before, but suddenly today they decided to question it. I was let through, but as I was walking to the platform, one of them said something about it not being valid at Canterbury West.

Prior to purchasing the ticket and since the changes on the 9th October 2013, I looked up the permitted routes between Martin Mill and London/Barnham. In both cases, I am allowed to travel between Martin Mill and Ashford International via Canterbury West, not just via Dover. As such, I'm not sure what the gateline assistant was getting at.

Anyway, that's enough for one weekend. I'm going to enjoy my time driving buses this evening and will be back at St Pancras for the 18:12 on Tuesday.

 

[embers25]

Omg they just get worse.Even EMT gave up eventually.I look forward to your ongoing exploits being documented in this thread as for those that don't see your hassles as a problem and your fault they may realise just how out of line southeastern are. It would be great if someone with the financial means to do it could travel with you and then you could both take southeastern to court for harassment as this is beyond a joke.Not knowing the rules is an excuse but refusing to abide by them at a senior level is just totally wrong. If EMT can acknowledge (begrudgingly) their uselessness its about time southeastern did. Hopefully if this thread gets enough real evidence in it a paper will spot it and help. The FCC case and your troubles are not really exceptions but more the norm sadly.Staff errors are one thing but management ones when they have time to research are quite another.
Keep up the good work!

 

[RJ]

I respect East Midlands Trains, or rather a member of their management team who took the initiative to consult with ATOC and take control of the staff at fault. They eventually acknowledged there was an issue at their end, repeatedly briefed their staff and recently paid out compensation which covered my costs. I've been through the 300+ pages worth of information they hold on me and there's nothing at all to suggest foul play - just a genuine misunderstanding of the situation.

Southeastern are playing dirty. ATOC contacted them less than 24 hours after the incident to tell them my ticket was valid. The organisation went against ATOC's advice and tried to take me to court for fare evasion, spending the last 7 months claiming my ticket was not valid.

Now that I know what I know and have confronted them, Southeastern have offered a three figure sum as compensation. I will reject any monetary offer they make until I have evidence that they are taking steps to ensure that what happened never happens again. Not just for me, but for all fare paying passengers.

 

[embers25]

I respect East Midlands Trains, or rather a member of their management team who took the initiative to consult with ATOC and take control of the staff at fault. They eventually acknowledged there was an issue at their end, repeatedly briefed their staff and recently paid out compensation which covered my costs. I've been through the 300+ pages worth of information they hold on me and there's nothing at all to suggest foul play - just a genuine misunderstanding of the situation.

Southeastern are playing dirty. ATOC contacted them less than 24 hours after the incident to tell them my ticket was valid. The organisation went against ATOC's advice and tried to take me to court for fare evasion, spending the last 7 months claiming my ticket was not valid.

Now that I know what I know and have confronted them, Southeastern have offered a three figure sum as compensation. I will reject any monetary offer they make until I have evidence that they are taking steps to ensure that what happened never happens again. Not just for me, but for all fare paying passengers.

Having read your previous threads on the whole SE fiasco I don't blame you for refusing to let them effectively sweep this under the carpet. The fact they still are doing the same thing and see no issue with it is beyond belief and shows unbelievable arrogance on their part. Given the research they have done on you, you would think they would have the common sense to follow EMT's lead and find a resolution rather than continue to confront you and fight cases that are totally hopeless against someone with your knowledge.

 

[Gricerjo]

I used to work in the industry and to be fair to Southeastern gateline and on-board staff, theirs is a commuter TOC where nearly all tickets sold will straightforward seasons to London. The more arcane options favoured by rail enthusiasts like us who prefer the “route les travelled” will be a mystery to them.

However, there is no excuse for rudeness or discourtesy and I would urge you to pursue this.

 

[Wolfie]

I respect East Midlands Trains, or rather a member of their management team who took the initiative to consult with ATOC and take control of the staff at fault. They eventually acknowledged there was an issue at their end, repeatedly briefed their staff and recently paid out compensation which covered my costs. I've been through the 300+ pages worth of information they hold on me and there's nothing at all to suggest foul play - just a genuine misunderstanding of the situation.

Southeastern are playing dirty. ATOC contacted them less than 24 hours after the incident to tell them my ticket was valid. The organisation went against ATOC's advice and tried to take me to court for fare evasion, spending the last 7 months claiming my ticket was not valid.

Now that I know what I know and have confronted them, Southeastern have offered a three figure sum as compensation. I will reject any monetary offer they make until I have evidence that they are taking steps to ensure that what happened never happens again. Not just for me, but for all fare paying passengers.

I previously posted details of the harrassment case won against British Gas. I would suggest that you send details of that case to whatever effwit so-called manager at SouthEastern "dealt" witrh your case and tell him/her the happy tidings that his/her company and him/her personally will be in court facing the same charges unless things change PDQ AND also involve the police - the fact that SothEastern pursued a court case when they knew they were in the wrong is all the evidence you need for a police investigation to be kicked off!

 

[island]

I used to work in the industry and to be fair to Southeastern gateline and on-board staff, theirs is a commuter TOC where nearly all tickets sold will straightforward seasons to London. The more arcane options favoured by rail enthusiasts like us who prefer the “route les travelled” will be a mystery to them.

Indeed. A number of Southeastern staff members have also been reported on this forum as having steadfastly denied any possibility that any off-peak ticket might possibly be valid before 0930.

I previously posted details of the harrassment case won against British Gas. I would suggest that you send details of that case to whatever effwit so-called manager at SouthEastern "dealt" witrh your case and tell him/her the happy tidings that his/her company and him/her personally will be in court facing the same charges unless things change PDQ AND also involve the police - the fact that SothEastern pursued a court case when they knew they were in the wrong is all the evidence you need for a police investigation to be kicked off!

I'm not sure whether this is correct. As far as I can see it is a civil matter.

 

[Gricerjo]

Indeed. A number of Southeastern staff members have also been reported on this forum as having steadfastly denied any possibility that any off-peak ticket might possibly be valid before 0930.

I'm not sure whether this is correct. As far as I can see it is a civil matter.

I have to agree with island here, without diminishing the validity of RJ's claim, this looks to be a civil matter rather than a criminal one.

Has RJ considered involving his MP? A few years ago Virgin refused to entertain a reasonable claim I had for compensation for a night in a B+B after its cancellation of a last train left me stranded in Manchester. A letter to me MP and subsequent representations from him secured me a refund plus a payment for the time I had spent pursuing the claim (and I didn't even vote for him!)

 

[34D]

I'm not sure whether this is correct. As far as I can see it is a civil matter.

Isn't harassment both?

 

[embers25]

Given there was no update, would I be correct in assuming Tuesday's trip to Canterbury went a little better?

 

[Wolfie]

Isn't harassment both?

Well the Home Office and Ministry of Justice seemed to believe so on the link I posted on another thread but what do they know.......

 

[RJ]

No further issues this week I'm glad to report - I went to Canterbury on Tuesday and Wednesday. On Wednesday I did deliberately avoid the gateline assistant from the 30th as I really didn't have the time to enter into any conversation about my ticket. Out of the four trips, I think my ticket was only inspected once on board. The ticket office at Canterbury West was open both evenings which is good - Southeastern should be clear by now that I won't drop the matter of that place closing up early on a regular basis

No Southeastern tonight - I'm off to a boat party along the Thames, but I will be heading to Canterbury tomorrow afternoon, back to London on Sunday to drive buses .