HST powercars/trailers retired after accidents

[USRailFan]

There have been at least three major accidents involving HST sets. How many trailers/powercars have been retired after various accidents?

 

[43096]

There have been at least three major accidents involving HST sets. How many trailers/powercars have been retired after various accidents?

4 power cars (43011/019/173/195) and (I think) 17 trailers.

 

[USRailFan]

So basically the equivalent of two complete HST sets have been lost in accidents then.

 

[_toommm_]

So basically two complete HST sets have been lost in accidents then.

Not necessarily. The coaches can be inserted easily into other sets (one bonus of the HST compared to a MU), they can be used for training, converted into MK3 LHCS etc.

 

[USRailFan]

Not necessarily. The coaches can be inserted easily into other sets (one bonus of the HST compared to a MU), they can be used for training, converted into MK3 LHCS etc.

Should have put "the equivalent of"

 

[_toommm_]

Should have put "the equivalent of"

Where would one put 'the equivalent of?

 

[fishquinn]

Where would one put 'the equivalent of?

Instead of basically, so it then reads 'So the equivalent of two complete HST sets have been lost in accidents then'.

 

[_toommm_]

Instead of basically, so it then reads 'So the equivalent of two complete HST sets have been lost in accidents then'.

Ah right. They replied to me so I was trying to work out where I could use that phrase.

 

[USRailFan]

Ah right. They replied to me so I was trying to work out where I could use that phrase.

Probably shouldn't post in short breaks at work when there's only limited time to post... Meant that I myself should have specified that it was the _equivalent of_ two complete trainsets that has been lost. Post edited now.

 

[nat67]

4 power cars (43011/019/173/195) and (I think) 17 trailers.

43011 in the Ladbroke Grove crash on the 5th October 1999
43019 in the Ufton Nervert crash on the 6th November 2004
43173 in the Southall rail crash on the 19th September 1997
43195 hit a tree on the 1st January 2018

 

[43096]

43011 in the Ladbroke Grove crash on the 5th October 1999
43019 in the Ufton Nervert crash on the 6th November 2004
43173 in the Southall rail crash on the 19th September 1997
43195 hit a tree on the 1st January 2018

To add to that, trailers written off in accidents are:
Southall: 41049/050
Ladbroke Grove: 40213, 41042/060, 42082
Ufton Nervet: 40206, 41013/044, 42017/018/020/022, 44006
Neville Hill depot shunting incident 10/09/2005: 41043
Neville Hill depot shunting incident 17/11/2009: 40729, 42324

 

[nat67]

To add to that, trailers written off in accidents are:
Southall: 41049/050
Ladbroke Grove: 40213, 41042/060, 42082
Ufton Nervet: 40206, 41013/044, 42017/018/020/022, 44006
Neville Hill depot shunting incident 10/09/2005: 41043
Neville Hill depot shunting incident 17/11/2009: 40729, 42324

Talking of HST trailers do you know what 41032,42045 & 42561 at up to at the mo?

 

[43096]

Talking of HST trailers do you know what 41032,42045 & 42561 at up to at the mo?

41032 and 42561 are in Scotland - they are part of the first sliding door set converted for ScotRail.
42045 is at Wabtec Doncaster for conversion for ScotRail.

 

[USRailFan]

To add to that, trailers written off in accidents are:
Southall: 41049/050
Ladbroke Grove: 40213, 41042/060, 42082
Ufton Nervet: 40206, 41013/044, 42017/018/020/022, 44006
Neville Hill depot shunting incident 10/09/2005: 41043
Neville Hill depot shunting incident 17/11/2009: 40729, 42324

So the whole trainset except one powercar was a write-off at Ufton Nervet?

 

[USRailFan]

To add to that, trailers written off in accidents are:
Southall: 41049/050
Ladbroke Grove: 40213, 41042/060, 42082
Ufton Nervet: 40206, 41013/044, 42017/018/020/022, 44006
Neville Hill depot shunting incident 10/09/2005: 41043
Neville Hill depot shunting incident 17/11/2009: 40729, 42324

41XXX are 1st Class, 42XXX 2nd class and 440XXX TGS, right? 40213 and 4026 would be TRFBs, I understand 40729 would've been some sort of buffet too from the number?

 

[43096]

So the whole trainset except one powercar was a write-off at Ufton Nervet?

Correct. Although some were undoubtedly repairable, there was a surplus of HST vehicles at the time and Angel (owners of the set involved) had a complete set stored off-lease. Simple solution was to write the set off and overhaul and bring the set out of store as an insurance replacement. Power car 43029 at the rear was also very close to being written off for the same reason.

 

[43096]

41XXX are 1st Class, 42XXX 2nd class and 440XXX TGS, right? 40213 and 4026 would be TRBFs, I understand 40729 would've been some sort of buffet too from the number?

Correct. 402xx catering cars have more seating and a smaller kitchen area. 407xx have a bigger kitchen area.

 

[USRailFan]

Correct. 402xx catering cars have more seating and a smaller kitchen area. 407xx have a bigger kitchen area.

One type is ex-TRSB and one type is ex-TRUK?

 

[CC 72100]

41XXX are 1st Class, 42XXX 2nd class and 440XXX TGS, right? 40213 and 4026 would be TRBFs, I understand 40729 would've been some sort of buffet too from the number?

Yes - I've never understood all the various buffet combinations (although some have more windows, some have an oven and some don't) but as I'm not buffet crew I don't pay too much attention!
From a GWR perspective - 402xx / 407xx / 408xx / 409xx = 'big' buffet vehicles with first class seating, 401xx = microbuffet vehicles with standard class seating (but that type of buffet may not have existed at the time of those accidents)

 

[43096]

One type is ex-TRSB and one type is ex-TRUK?

The 402xx are ex-TRSB. 407xx were built as such and are not conversions.

 

[nat67]

41032 and 42561 are in Scotland - they are part of the first sliding door set converted for ScotRail.
42045 is at Wabtec Doncaster for conversion for ScotRail.

Cheers I still need them for sight. Also what is 42102 doing is it going for GTI?

 

[nat67]

One type is ex-TRSB and one type is ex-TRUK?

I think TRUK was type 405xx that got converted for loco-hauled use as 102xx. TRSB's had a number conversion when making them into TRFB's by adding 200 to make them 404xx rather than 402xx. Very confusing.

 

[Commoner]

I think TRUK was type 405xx that got converted for loco-hauled use as 102xx. TRSB's had a number conversion when making them into TRFB's by adding 200 to make them 404xx rather than 402xx. Very confusing.

TRUKs 40501-20 were original build 1976/77, some of which were converted to Royal Train use, while the vast majority were converted to 102xx vehicles for loco-hauled use, firstly on the WCML. TRSBs 40001-37 were original build from 1976/77. They were all renumbered 404xx in 1983 and subsequently some 402xx after they were modified with enhanced kitchen facilities and First Class seating from 1984 onwards.

 

[43096]

I think TRUK was type 405xx that got converted for loco-hauled use as 102xx. TRSB's had a number conversion when making them into TRFB's by adding 200 to make them 404xx rather than 402xx. Very confusing.

You certainly are confused....
Only 12 TRUKs were converted to 102xx RFMs. The rest became, variously, Royal Train, NMT, HST TF or exported to Ireland.

“Commoner” has it right about the TRSBs. Just to add, though, that the initial renumberings from 400xx were to avoid clashes with Class 40s when coaching stock was added to TOPS/RAVERS in the early 1980s.

 

[fgwrich]

To add to the list (or some of the confusion), the 408XXs were converted by Midland Mainline from ex Virgin TRSBs for the Project Rio sets. They gained a larger kitchen and blanked off one of the larger windows in the process (on one side only), making them 3 window. 10 of the 11 are now operated by FGW / GWR with the exception of 40805 which is operated by LNER / East Midlands Trains. Bizarrely of the FGW versions, most gained the new buffet counter as part of their FGW refurbishment except for 40810 & 40811.

 

[capital12]

Has 43195 actually been scrapped yet or is it just in storage and not going to be repaired?

 

[43096]

Has 43195 actually been scrapped yet or is it just in storage and not going to be repaired?

It’s stored at Laira being robbed for parts.

 

[Neil Urquhart]

And of course, the one of the prototype PCs was scrapped. Never understood why the prototypes were not kept in use surely they had a lot of life left in them once the production PCs were coming on stream?

 

[capital12]

It’s stored at Laira being robbed for parts.

Cheers.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

And of course, the one of the prototype PCs was scrapped. Never understood why the prototypes were not kept in use surely they had a lot of life left in them once the production PCs were coming on stream?

There's a few reasons: their hotel power supply was different to the production cars, and there were several other ways (besides appearance) that they were non-standard. IIRC the cabs weren't liked by the drivers' unions, too.