HST timings Pre - Ladbroke

[YourMum666]

Average journey nowadays from London to reading takes about 25-28 mins. How much quicker were the timings pre Ladbroke Grove ?

 

[hexagon789]

The original HST timing (from the full accelerated 125mph timetable introduced in 1977) was 23 mins.

By the mid-1990s, various amounts of engineering and pathing allowances and the so-called 'charter' mins, had broadly extended that on the majority of services.

Also, the standard IET timing today is also 23 mins including 1 min engineering allowance. Practically every Bristol is timed at 23 mins to Reading for instance.

The 387s are given 26 mins (again with 1 min engineering allowance).

 

[Magdalia]

Average journey nowadays from London to reading takes about 25-28 mins. How much quicker were the timings pre Ladbroke Grove ?

The original HST timing (from the full accelerated 125mph timetable introduced in 1977) was 23 mins.

In that era the Railway Magazine used to publish an annual article Britain's Fastest Trains.

The August 1977 issue has the 1977 article. It gives 11 trains running Paddington-Reading in 22 minutes and 6 in 23 minutes.

Generally speaking the first train in a flight was timed at 22 minutes with anything close behind timed at 23 minutes, there are examples like this for xx15 to South Wales followed by xx20 to Bristol.

The only start to stop runs faster than Paddington to Reading were 5 up trains from Swindon to Reading timed at 24 or 25 minutes.

Another point worth remembering is that many more trains ran non-stop through Reading in 1977.

 

[hexagon789]

In that era the Railway Magazine used to publish an annual article Britain's Fastest Trains.

The August 1977 issue has the 1977 article. It gives 11 trains running Paddington-Reading in 22 minutes and 6 in 23 minutes.

Generally speaking the first train in a flight was timed at 22 minutes with anything close behind timed at 23 minutes, there are examples like this for xx15 to South Wales followed by xx20 to Bristol.

The only start to stop runs faster than Paddington to Reading were 5 up trains from Swindon to Reading timed at 24 or 25 minutes.

Another point worth remembering is that many more trains ran non-stop through Reading in 1977.

My mistake was looking at the departure time off Reading...

 

[greyman42]

So why are they slower now than pre-Ladbroke?

 

[hexagon789]

So why are they slower now than pre-Ladbroke?

Defensive driving, driving brake test, lower speed limits?

My 3 guesses anyway.

 

[Magdalia]

I'd add a more congested railway and punctuality targets.

 

[Taunton]

Is part of the "more congested railway" now allowing 110mph trains on the Main lines all day (including slowing for crossing over at Dolphin Junction at Slough), where previously I seem to recall it was 125mph only, everything else on the Reliefs.

You might just get away with it in the Down direction, all starting at Paddington, but the same service density on the Up, interleaving long distance trains to the minute which have been running in some cases for hours just seems too much.

And then there's still the four per hour Heathrow Express on the Mains, not around in 1977 of course, and commonly now empty stock, especially in the Down direction where the passengers have not been subjected to the Heathrow "sales" team.

 

[Cowley]

I thought the approach to Paddington was slightly slowed down post Ladbroke Grove as well? I may well be wrong about that though, would someone like @Bald Rick perhaps know the answer?

 

[Bald Rick]

’fraid I don’t know.

What I so know is that drivers take a much more cautious approach to Apddington than they did before TPWS / ATP was deployed.

Also, the practice of permissive working into the old Platform 4 at Reading, with one down HST arriving at speed with the previous one still departing has long since (rightly) been consigned to history.

 

[hexagon789]

I thought the approach to Paddington was slightly slowed down post Ladbroke Grove as well? I may well be wrong about that though, would someone like @Bald Rick perhaps know the answer?

’fraid I don’t know.

What I so know is that drivers take a much more cautious approach to Apddington than they did before TPWS / ATP was deployed.

Also, the practice of permissive working into the old Platform 4 at Reading, with one down HST arriving at speed with the previous one still departing has long since (rightly) been consigned to history.

I believe, and I'm sure if I've misunderstood someone will correct it, but I understood that the PSRs were adjusted so that 125mph running now commences/finishes further from Paddington than it did when normal 125mph running began in 1976.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

22 mins used to be the "flagship" time is the days of "deeply inefficient" BR , - but then the HST's were very new , and to be fair the trains were flighted with a pair of trains , especially on the down being close together - then a decent gap before the next flight.

 

[JonathanH]

Also, the practice of permissive working into the old Platform 4 at Reading, with one down HST arriving at speed with the previous one still departing has long since (rightly) been consigned to history.

When was that a thing? They used to all queue up at signal 328(?) outside the station.

 

[Magdalia]

Is part of the "more congested railway" now allowing 110mph trains on the Main lines all day (including slowing for crossing over at Dolphin Junction at Slough), where previously I seem to recall it was 125mph only, everything else on the Reliefs.

For the introduction of HSTs in 1977 the minimum maximum speed on the main lines was raised to 90 mph. Loco hauled passenger trains ran on the main lines at 90-100mph, including West of England, Birmingham and Hereford trains. Maximum speed depended on the class of loco provided, 100 mph for class 50, 95 mph for class 47 and 90 mph for anything else. There were also premium parcels trains booked on the main lines at 90 mph, such as 1533 Paddington-Swansea.

Prior to the introduction of HSTs there were through trains between Paddington and Henley formed with DMUs running at 70 mph on the main lines. These were replaced with loco hauled Twyford starters/terminators in 1976 which could run on the main lines at 90-100 mph, and usually switched to/from the relief lines at Maidenhead. Various Oxfords also switched to/from the relief lines at Ruscombe.

 

[Taunton]

Well yes, when HSTs were first introduced they were not ubiquitous, it took some time for that to happen, coming later to the WofE, later again to Hereford, and with the Birminghams withdrawn.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Average journey nowadays from London to reading takes about 25-28 mins. How much quicker were the timings pre Ladbroke Grove ?

How many intermediate stops is that average with are you including trains with Slough stops to get that average?

The non-stops unless they have pathing time to follow another service are all scheduled to take 23 minutes including [1] engineering allowance for TSRs and {h} for a running brake test.

 

[Bald Rick]

When was that a thing? They used to all queue up at signal 328(?) outside the station.

Certainly through the 80s. Not sure when it stopped.

 

[43096]

I thought the approach to Paddington was slightly slowed down post Ladbroke Grove as well? I may well be wrong about that though, would someone like @Bald Rick perhaps know the answer?

There was a lower PSR implemented out to Ladbroke Grove after the accident. Not sure what to, but 40mph rings a bell.

 

[Cowley]

There was a lower PSR implemented out to Ladbroke Grove after the accident. Not sure what to, but 40mph rings a bell.

Thanks for that and also to the others that commented. Interesting discussion.

 

[irish_rail]

There was a lower PSR implemented out to Ladbroke Grove after the accident. Not sure what to, but 40mph rings a bell.

40 out of the blocks , 50 from Portobello to Ladbroke then 100 up to Acton where 125 commences.

 

[Horizon22]

There was a lower PSR implemented out to Ladbroke Grove after the accident. Not sure what to, but 40mph rings a bell.

Yes it was originally 100mph to very close to Paddington - there was work in the 1990s to do this, albeit with some rumblings of concern. There's a section about in the report.

 

[JN114]

After Slough IECC opened in the mid-90s, but before Ladbroke Grove, the speed limit in the up direction was 100mph on Line 2 all the way until the last signal before Paddington at Royal Oak (90mph on Line 3, 70mph all other lines). The down direction was slightly more conservative, with 85mph available on Line 1 from Royal Oak, all other lines 60 until Ladbroke Grove where all lines became 70. Both the present day start of 100mph on the Down Main by North Pole and the step up to 125mph at Acton remain largely unchanged today from where they were set in the 1990s, the changes post-Ladbroke Grove didn’t touch those in any meaningful way.