HST's for Scotrails New Franchise

[thetangoman]

I see Abellio are promising a fleet of "Fully refurbished fleet of HST's" to link Scotlands 7 major cities.

What type of refurb do you think they will get
i.e. Chilternised or just a lick of paint and seat covers
Surely retaining tanks are a must on them

Cheers
Russell

 

[thealexweb]

How many Mark III's can we expect to be used per set. I saw a quote saying a third more seating. 7+2 formation?

 

[DarloRich]

I wonder if we are talking HST's (ie 125's) or "High Speed Train" aka new units?

 

[jopsuk]

the quote from the press release is

A true intercity offer Scotland can be proud of:

Transformation of the quality of inter-city services by introducing a fully refurbished fleet of HSTs by December 2018 to connect the seven cities. The refurbishment will deliver:
•high quality on-board service, buffet and at seat catering
•a proper First Class offer for business travellers
•more toilets, luggage space and bike accommodation
•improved journey times and connectivity between the key cities

So that's Class 43s and Mark 3 coaches, aka HSTs, aka Intercity 125s, without a shadow of doubt. by "connect the seven cities" it'll be the Glasgow & Edinburgh to Inverness and Aberdeen services- Glasgow-Aberdeen passes through Stirling, Perth and Dundee, Glasgow-Inverness through Stirling and Perth, Edinburgh-Inverness goes through Perth and Edinburgh-Aberdeen through Dundee.

As for what the refurbishment will entail? That's 100% of the information that anyone outside of Abellio, the DfT, Transport Scotland and the ROSCO to be involved, has. Rather pointless to speculate or make wishlists!

 

[LowLevel]

125s - there's a mockup of a set in the brochure with Chilterns style doors and much talk if the iconic train.

 

[Emyr]

It's quite a specific term; as "refurbished fleet" is the term used, it's likely they have a particular class in mind, so to use "HST" for any other train would be very strange.

 

[DarloRich]

I have read the bumpf now - very interesting news.

 

[jopsuk]

125s - there's a mockup of a set in the brochure with Chilterns style doors and much talk if the iconic train.

Do you have a link to this brochure? it would be very helpful if people could link their sources!

 

[HSTEd]

So how many Turbostars does this displace?

I assume they will all stay in-country by order of Transport Scotland but maybe some scraps will come south?

 

[DarloRich]

So how many Turbostars does this displace?

I assume they will all stay in-country by order of Transport Scotland but maybe some scraps will come south?

I would hope that the runts of the litter may drift south but i somehow doubt it!

 

[edwin_m]

Could this be 442 trailers between HST power cars as suggested by one of the mags recently?

 

[jopsuk]

Could this be 442 trailers between HST power cars as suggested by one of the mags recently?

Almost certainly not.

 

[ainsworth74]

Could this be 442 trailers between HST power cars as suggested by one of the mags recently?

Why bother doing that when they already have usable trailers...

Some people some to be worryingly desperate to find new uses for the 442s...

Brochure here. Top of page five shows the HST but I'm not sure I'd put much faith in that as its not really a proper mock-up! It uses the term 'galley catering' a lot which I assume is yet another way of saying the train will have a buffet.

 

[HSTEd]

Brochure here. Top of page five shows the HST but I'm not sure I'd put much faith in that as its not really a proper mock-up!

Those vehicles have no saltire end marks

I wonder if those idiotic features of the livery are finally being dropped.

 

[telstarbox]

Those vehicles have no saltire end marks

I wonder if those idiotic features of the livery are finally being dropped.

The saltire livery makes sense to me - the trains only run in Scotland and it saves repainting the trains every time the franchise changes?

The brochure says "Introduction of hugely popular high speed trains for inter-city travel between Stirling, Perth and Dundee and the other four Scottish cities" - does that mean popular with enthusiasts or the public?

 

[HSTEd]

The saltire livery makes sense to me - the trains only run in Scotland and it saves repainting the trains every time the franchise changes?

If you looka t pictures of current scotrail units you can see saltires on the vehicle ends which are missing from this livery.

I was not attacking the idea of the livery just I really really don't like it.

 

[telstarbox]

125s - there's a mockup of a set in the brochure with Chilterns style doors and much talk if the iconic train.

Where are the HSTs coming from - First Great Western?

 

[HSTEd]

Where are the HSTs coming from - First Great Western?

They will probably be mostly EC examples since I believe those are the youngest ones to be displaced by the IEP project.

Ofcourse since we are looking at 20+ sets there will have to be some GW ones in there.
Also GC sets are becoming available.

 

[sprinterguy]

So how many Turbostars does this displace?

To quote a post I made over in the main Scotrail franchise thread:

Based on 2006 diagrams (Outdated, I know, but the numbers certainly won’t have decreased), the combined effect of EGIP and the introduction of HSTs on the Scottish Inter-city routes has the potential to release the entire express fleet of 34 class 170 units, working 30/31 diagrams. There will also be a small number of 158s freed up by these measures, but I don’t know how many.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

How many Mark III's can we expect to be used per set. I saw a quote saying a third more seating. 7+2 formation?

Could even the longest extended platforms at Glasgow Queen Street handle a 2+7 formation? A third more seats than a 170 (There’s not much doubling up on Aberdeen/Inverness services that I’ve seen) would be around 265 – That’s 3.5 standard class mark 3 carriages: A 2+5 formation therefore seems more likely.

Or could we perhaps even see a 1+5 formation, utilising mark 3 carriages converted to driving cars as Porterbrook have offered?

 

[Yew]

The doors in the image seem to be consistent with those used by chiltern, so hopefully the refurbishment would be to the same standard. (finally, no more squeaky corridors.. I hope..)

I do however admit, I'm a little suprised by this proposal, maybe with the IEP, ROSCOS have planned to reduce leasing costs, the make the HST fleet more appealing?

 

[thenorthern]

Just a question aren't Network Rail going to electrify the Glasgow to Edinburgh via Falkirk and Via Shotts lines which would make using Diesel HSTs rather impractical between Edinburgh and Glasgow?

Also what is the line speed for the lines to Inverness, Perth, Aberdeen and Dundee?

 

[sprinterguy]

They will probably be mostly EC examples since I believe those are the youngest ones to be displaced by the IEP project.

Ofcourse since we are looking at 20+ sets there will have to be some GW ones in there.
Also GC sets are becoming available.

I suppose it depends which ROSCO Abellio are doing a deal with: Angel own the majority of the HST power cars (and presumably trailers), which includes most of the younger examples (including ECs).

 

[thetangoman]

Just a question aren't Network Rail going to electrify the Glasgow to Edinburgh via Falkirk and Via Shotts lines which would make using Diesel HSTs rather impractical between Edinburgh and Glasgow?

Also what is the line speed for the lines to Inverness, Perth, Aberdeen and Dundee?

Thhey were never getting used for the Glasgow to Edinburgh route. They are being used for the routes north from Glasgow and Edinburgh

 

[Topgun333]

Is Transport Scotland responsible for the fate of the Turbostars that the HSTs will replace or does DfT retain ownership of fleet cascading decisions in Scotland? I'm sure that Northern Rail would like some Turbostars that could replace 150s on some routes, which in turn could replace some Pacer diagrams.

 

[HSTEd]

TS will demand retention of the 170s.

Northern will get some 156s if its lucky.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Do you have a link to this brochure? it would be very helpful if people could link their sources!

It's on the main franchise thread: http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk... franchise/Scotrail Brochure October 2014.pdf

Abellio's press release: http://www.abellio.com/news/abellio-awarded-contract-operate-scotlands-national-railway-scotrail

 

[HSTEd]

Whats the platform length at Glasgow Queen Street?

I imagine this will determine what length the sets will end up as.

 

[sprinterguy]

From the other thread:

At present:
Platform 1 – 75m (3 x 23m cars)
Platform 2 – 162m (6 x 23m cars)
Platform 3 – 125m (5 x 23m cars)
Platform 4 – 125m (5 x 23m cars)
Platform 5 – 168m (7 x 23m cars)
Platform 6 – 173m (7 x 23m cars)
Platform 7 – 192m (8 x 23m cars)

I’m not sure what the lengths will be once the extensions have been completed, but apparently platforms 2,3,4 and 5 will be able to handle 8-car trains.

 

[HSTEd]

That looks like 2+6 with possibility of 2+7 then, depending how tight the pointwork is to the end of the platforms.

 

[Bishopstone]

TS will demand retention of the 170s.

Northern will get some 156s if its lucky.

Of course, if they want to keep them they'll have to keep paying for them, and the HSTs. Where in Scotland is such a substantial internal cascade needed?