Hull trains becoming more like Lumo?

[35B]

Probably fair to say the scale of the problems caused by baggage is now at an all time high, though. Hence there’s a new focus on bringing in these restrictions, even though they’ve always been theoretically possible.

I agree with you about the impact of modern designs of train, but the amount of luggage that a 64 seat Mk2 or 72seat MK3 could absorb made a hell of a difference. Cramming more passengers in has removed that storage space.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Today I met a chap with a very large case and unusual dimensions. It had small wheels. He'd managed to bring it all the way from Thailand, plus a large back pack, got through Manchester Airport, Piccadilly Platforms 13/14 to make the final lap home from Dore by taxi. The taxi driver declined to take him and the firm wouldn't send another. It was his full size bike. If anyone needed an old fashioned guards van (or luggage in advance service) he did. He was dead lucky, it went in my car.

With a bike in a taxi (even boxed) I’d always check on booking. I’ve even encountered RRBs where the driver has been reluctant to take my fully folded bike.

 

[TreacleMiller]

There was a gentleman at KX arguing my TM about a Kayak.

He had booked the bike space and his logic was that the Kayak was "about the same as the bike". He didn't travel but that's probably the most bizarre thing I've seen someone try and pass of as "normal" baggage.

You do tend to get families that have either been on or on their way to big / long holidays with several large suitcases between a family of 5. That's chaos on a busy train.

It would be ideal if there was a luggage system in the style of the a DVT but it won't happen now.

The I coming 897s have a DVT style provision I believe but it'll be for bikes only from what I am told.

 

[35B]

There was a gentleman at KX arguing my TM about a Kayak.

He had booked the bike space and his logic was that the Kayak was "about the same as the bike". He didn't travel but that's probably the most bizarre thing I've seen someone try and pass of as "normal" baggage.

You do tend to get families that have either been on or on their way to big / long holidays with several large suitcases between a family of 5. That's chaos on a busy train.

It would be ideal if there was a luggage system in the style of the a DVT but it won't happen now.

The I coming 897s have a DVT style provision I believe but it'll be for bikes only from what I am told.

I’m struggling with the idea of the DVT as luggage space. My experience on the ECML, except for a brief experiment with checked in luggage, is that they were specified for parcels space, and very rarely used for luggage.

 

[Angmering1974]

The space under the seat is for my feet. Let's not have Ryanair infect train travel too

If they continue to turn trains into planes on wheels (for example charging for baggage), I'll continue to drive even more so than I do now.

I agree with the poster who said this is a failure of adequate train design/luggage storage provision

 

[WesternLancer]

This isn’t going to happen, and is going to be physically impossible given the rolling stock fleets acquired in recent years, which we are now stuck with for the next few decades. More luggage racks means less space for seats or standing passengers.

So, quite simply, the solution is for people to be encouraged/cajoled/forced into carrying less luggage.

Or alternatively get a car

 

[Tracked]

Took my Brompton G line on LNER today, even when folded, it will not stand of]r lay in a luggage rack, it will only fit if leant over. S not all folding bikes are equal. My original Brompton fits ok though.

I found last week that my cheapo Carrera lump of folding metal will fit nicely in front of the folding seats near the doors of a 195/331, had to find this out as the bike section of the 195 I got was filled with a couple of unfolded prams

 

[ricoblade]

What do you mean I can't take my kitchen sink when I'm going on a long weekend somewhere?

The overhead racks on the 80X trains are quite large and will take large rucksacks or suitcases, compared to the racks on the voyagers/222s which are small in comparison (due to the bodies being built for tilt).

I encountered this last week - Doncaster to Bristol out via Hull Trains and GWR, largeish grip fitted in the overhead no problem, back via Cross Country and had to stack it up with everyone else in the luggage rack.

 

[irp]

I encountered this last week - Doncaster to Bristol out via Hull Trains and GWR, largeish grip fitted in the overhead no problem, back via Cross Country and had to stack it up with everyone else in the luggage rack.

Another potential issue is that sometimes (Esp if I'm on a longer trip, or a trip where more gear is needed [EG weather gear, tent, sleeping bag etc), while my rucksack may fit "up top", I may not be able to lift it, or get it down safely, despite being able to carry it on my back just fine. Thankfully, I'm slim enough that even my 80 litre rucksack can be pushed into the back of my seat, thus I don't take up extra space

 

[swaldman]

Which is a good thing. The amount of utter junk people take with them is unbelievable - you’d think they were going away for a month!

Maybe they are!
Seems awfully arrogant of you to assume you know whether people need the amount of stuff they are carrying.

Traditionally, "if you can carry it it's OK" has been a major advantage of rail travel over planes, buses, etc.....

 

[Egg Centric]

Maybe they are!
Seems awfully arrogant of you to assume you know whether people need the amount of stuff they are carrying.

Traditionally, "if you can carry it it's OK" has been a major advantage of rail travel over planes, buses, etc.....

Indeed. If I'm honest, I go to an irrational amount of effort to use trains domestically, fuelled by my enthusiasm. Stiff baggage limits would be the final straw as they'd be rendered essentially unusable and I'm in the position to easily switch to driving or flying.

 

[MCR247]

One thing that bothers me about luggage racks on modern trains is the amount of space the racks themselves waste. Very rarely do they seem to use all of the space available to them, such as the racks not being as deep as a pair of seats. This combined with them being raised off the floor is pretty unhelpful. The luggage spaces on HSTs were one of their best features imo

 

[D365]

One thing that bothers me about luggage racks on modern trains is the amount of space the racks themselves waste. Very rarely do they seem to use all of the space available to them, such as the racks not being as deep as a pair of seats. This combined with them being raised off the floor is pretty unhelpful. The luggage spaces on HSTs were one of their best features imo

In a lot of cases, the racks serve a dual purpose as they house electronic equipment.

 

[generalnerd]

Indeed. If I'm honest, I go to an irrational amount of effort to use trains domestically, fuelled by my enthusiasm. Stiff baggage limits would be the final straw as they'd be rendered essentially unusable and I'm in the position to easily switch to driving or flying.

This is one of my biggest points. Due to the failures involved with TPE we’ve switched from taking the train to Manchester to driving, and I’m sure if hull trains starts playing up big time we’ll drive to the outskirts, find a long stay car park and take the train the rest of the way in, as we often take lots of baggage with us especially when travelling long trips.

Ideally, we’d like to leave the car at home but if the worst comes to the worst we may have to start driving for a few trips. Most trips we should be fine as we only take two suitcases total (when we go for a day trip or one night we often don’t take any suitcases) but I still think it’s ridiculous.

Personally, I’d quite like to see a rail delivery service, which means you can drop off your large item at any participating rail station, they wait for the train carrying the compartment to get here, you jump on that train (this would be pre booked of course) and then it takes you to your destination (or you will have to change if your destination is not on the route).

You could also introduce and airline style ‘checked baggage’ using some form of baggage compartment like seen on DVT’s and HST’s. Ramble over

 

[bahnause]

In France, following protests from the cultural sector, the carriage of one double bass per train is now permitted.

Culture minister Rachida Dati announced together with the train operator that basses will now be allowed.

There seems to be a demand for the transport of larger items on trains.

Found at bachtrack.com:

Double basses now allowed on French trains, but only one at a time

French national rail service SNCF has rowed back on its controversial practice of barring of double basses from trains. Culture minister Rachida Dati announced together with the train operator that basses will now be allowed – but only a single bass per train.

On TGV inOui trains, instruments must be transported in a soft cover, and must not exceed 1m95 in size. “If a double bass is already on board, the musician will be repositioned on the next train,” the statement adds.

Until now, bassists were not able to transport their instruments by train in any capacity, due to size restrictions. In 2021, an open letter written to Le Monde opposing the practice was signed by more than 45,000 people. Bassist Sébastien Boisseau described musicians feeling treated “like thugs and offenders, while traveling with a valid ticket”.

Bassists have also faced fines for bringing their instruments on trains. In 2022 Leïla Soldevila was fined €150, with the SNCF claiming her instrument posed a “threat to customer safety”. Others to receive fines include bassists Sarah Murcia and Stephen Harrison.

The reversal in course follows a six-month test phase, after the SNCF faced mounting public pressure. Many musicians are increasingly travelling by train in an aim to cut down on carbon emissions.

“Musicians must reserve and occupy seats located near their instrument,” the statement continued. “It is recommended to book in advance and to favour trains running during ‘off-peak’ periods.”

“Anticipation of travel and communication between the musician and the conductor are essential for the success of the system. Musicians are therefore invited to introduce themselves in advance to the conductor before boarding the train to ensure the availability of the suitable space.”

 

[Tetchytyke]

Traditionally, "if you can carry it it's OK" has been a major advantage of rail travel over planes, buses, etc.....

Air travel is now better for taking luggage with you, which is mad. A Club Europe ticket on BA gives you 64kg of luggage to take with you.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Air travel is now better for taking luggage with you, which is mad. A Club Europe ticket on BA gives you 64kg of luggage to take with you.

It's not at all unusual elsewhere in the world for first class to allow more luggage. No reason that shouldn't also be the case on UK trains; the lower seat density means more space in the overheads and floor level racks per seat.

That said, realistically hardly anyone is actually carrying the full NRCoT allowance (two 90x70x30 cases and an airline hand luggage bag). I don't think I ever have, though I have taken two large bags (a trolley and a rucksack) on very rare occasions. The only issue with being strict is the edge case of odd shaped bags that exceed those numbers, primarily the 30, by a very small amount - upping that to 40 (and maybe the 90 to 100, as some climbing rucksacks are very narrow but tall) would encompass basically everything even vaguely sensible.

 

[43066]

In France, following protests from the cultural sector, the carriage of one double bass per train is now permitted.

Culture minister Rachida Dati announced together with the train operator that basses will now be allowed.

There seems to be a demand for the transport of larger items on trains.

Found at bachtrack.com:

Double basses now allowed on French trains, but only one at a time

It’s interesting that a ban on transporting double basses caused such an outcry. It’s not common to see them on UK trains - albeit I did see one a couple of weeks ago on a Southeastern networker. They’re absolutely enormous and take up at least as much space as a grown man. Certainly the kind of thing that it wouldn’t be wise to attempt to transport on a crowded rush hour commuter train!

Bikes are a far bigger issue in the UK given the explosion in cycling in recent years.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s interesting that a ban on transporting double basses caused such an outcry. It’s not common to see them on UK trains - albeit I did see one a couple of weeks ago on a Southeastern networker. They’re absolutely enormous and take up at least as much space as a grown man. Certainly the kind of thing that it wouldn’t be wise to attempt to transport on a crowded rush hour commuter train!

I don't think the airline practice of charging a full adult fare for such an item (with the assumption that that means it is carried on a seat and is equally entitled to one as a person, including reserving one) is a bad thing to be honest.

Bikes are a far bigger issue in the UK given the explosion in cycling in recent years.

I'm not sure they are, because hire schemes (both docked ones operated by city councils and Lime etc) are becoming so common that the need to take one with you is significantly reduced. Obviously leisure cyclists will want to ride their own, but most people just using one as part of a commute are happy to hire.

 

[generalnerd]

In France, following protests from the cultural sector, the carriage of one double bass per train is now permitted.

Culture minister Rachida Dati announced together with the train operator that basses will now be allowed.

There seems to be a demand for the transport of larger items on trains.

Found at bachtrack.com:

Double basses now allowed on French trains, but only one at a time

With the mention of ‘bass’ I thought you meant the fish!!

 

[Killingworth]

It’s interesting that a ban on transporting double basses caused such an outcry. It’s not common to see them on UK trains - albeit I did see one a couple of weeks ago on a Southeastern networker. They’re absolutely enormous and take up at least as much space as a grown man. Certainly the kind of thing that it wouldn’t be wise to attempt to transport on a crowded rush hour commuter train!

Memories, memories!

Voss, Norway, August 1964.

 

[43066]

I'm not sure they are, because hire schemes (both docked ones operated by city councils and Lime etc) are becoming so common that the need to take one with you is significantly reduced. Obviously leisure cyclists will want to ride their own, but most people just using one as part of a commute are happy to hire.

I and the traincrew I work with are sure they are . It’s true that Lime bikes and the like are more popular, but a lot of “serious” cyclists don’t rate them at all. They also have very expensive bikes which they wouldn’t want to leave locked up at stations - and who can blame them?

Anecdotally I am quite convinced that there are more bikes carried on trains during the summer months now than ever before - I’m not sure whether there are any official figures to back this up because of course, absent network ride mandatory cycle reservations, there’s no record of who has a bike and who doesn’t.

Memories, memories!

Voss, Norway, August 1964.

View attachment 175998

A cracking photo!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I and the traincrew I work with are sure they are . It’s true that Lime bikes and the like are more popular, but a lot of “serious” cyclists don’t rate them at all. They also have very expensive bikes which they wouldn’t want to leave locked up at stations - and who can blame them?

Primarily leisure cyclists, I guess? Most commuters ride some sort of low value bone shaker a shortish distance to the station and are happy with a TfL bike to their office at the other end.

 

[43066]

Primarily leisure cyclists, I guess? Most commuters ride some sort of low value bone shaker a shortish distance to the station and are happy with a TfL bike to their office at the other end.

Yes absolutely.

There are quite a few more Bromptons too, but they’re obviously less of an issue.

 

[bahnause]

Bikes are a far bigger issue in the UK given the explosion in cycling in recent years.

This trend is likely to continue and must be addressed accordingly by the railways. Flexible zones for luggage and bicycles are an option.

 

[43066]

This trend is likely to continue and must be addressed accordingly by the railways. Flexible zones for luggage and bicycles are an option.

Agreed. Unfortunately with the UK public these are the source of endless arguments.

 

[Towers]

This trend is likely to continue and must be addressed accordingly by the railways. Flexible zones for luggage and bicycles are an option.

But does that image show a ‘flexible zone’, or a bike space?! The issue with flexible areas is that they assume that on one journey someone brings a bike, on the next trip someone brings luggage, but never do the two turn at at the same time…

Even if you adopt mandatory cycle reservations - which many/most TOCs appear not to - where then does the customer with the luggage go? Do you introduce mandatory luggage reservations, too? It is, IMHO, a complete cop-out to have one area and then describe it as being ‘flexible’, the concept simply doesn’t meet the needs of customers.

 

[bahnause]

But does that image show a ‘flexible zone’, or a bike space?! The issue with flexible areas is that they assume that on one journey someone brings a bike, on the next trip someone brings luggage, but never do the two turn at at the same time…

Even if you adopt mandatory cycle reservations - which many/most TOCs appear not to - where then does the customer with the luggage go? Do you introduce mandatory luggage reservations, too? It is, IMHO, a complete cop-out to have one area and then describe it as being ‘flexible’, the concept simply doesn’t meet the needs of customers.

Luggage can be stored at the left side, bikes on the right. Luggage is usually not a big problem as there is quite a lot of space between the seats, even for suitcases or bigger backpacks.

 

[Killingworth]

Turn the clock back to when all trains had guards vans and ample space for bicycles. My grandfather seems to used his bike to visit the areas around Newcastle as a commercial traveller just after WW1. He'd have paid to do so and that practice of charging probably continued until at least the 1950s if not 1960s - as it did for dogs and prams.

Making a charge for using extra space is reasonable. Creating enough of that space now across the crowded network makes any scheme... problematic! But shouldn't those requiring additional space pay something extra?

1/3 wasn't cheap. Tandems must have been problematic even in 1937!

 

[Towers]

Turn the clock back to when all trains had guards vans and ample space for bicycles. My grandfather seems to used his bike to visit the areas around Newcastle as a commercial traveller just after WW1. He'd have paid to do so and that practice of charging probably continued until at least the 1950s if not 1960s - as it did for dogs and prams.

Making a charge for using extra space is reasonable. Creating enough of that space now across the crowded network makes any scheme... problematic! But shouldn't those requiring additional space pay something extra?

View attachment 176003 1/3 wasn't cheap. Tandems must have been problematic even in 1937!

I suppose the other side of that argument would be that the ‘green’ dilemma and urban congestion problem weren’t really issues back then? Nowadays we have a moral necessity to encourage cycle use in the face of stiff competition from the private car, which might suggest that public transport needs to do better?