Hull Trains order for 5x Class 800 (now confirmed as AT300)

[Class 170101]

Can the new bimodes change mode on the move?
DDB

The contract specification requires them to do so

Just because the trains can change on the move is there any obligation on NR to provide capable infrastructure to enable them to do so?

 

[Haydn1971]

Mmmm... Let me see it states within the link

Sigh...

Press release here....

Hull Trains has announced a consultation to invest £68 million pound to ensure that the Hull & Humber region continues to benefit from high-speed connectivity to the capital, despite delays to rail electrification across the country.
The Government announced the suspension of various electrification projects earlier this summer. Despite this, Hull Trains has continued to work with Network Rail and the ORR to secure a high-speed, efficient and first-rate service from the region to the capital. This means that passengers will not be disadvantaged by electrification delays in comparison to other areas that already benefit from a fully electrified railway.
Hull Trains officially announced today that it has plans to invest 68million in a fleet of Bi-Mode trains, which are capable of both electric, and diesel operation. The firm has also commenced an industry consultation process to secure track access for at least another ten years.
If these plans are successful, then the units are expected to enter service in 2020 and will bring multiple economic, social and environmental benefits.
Speed of the units will reach up to 140mph compared to the current 125mph capacity of Hull Trains’ Class 180 units. The company’s fleet will also increase to five units with up to 320 seats on each, meaning a 50% increase in the number of sears for passengers.
The announcement comes at a time when Hull Trains is experiencing record growth in passenger journeys of 24% in its last reporting period, compared with an industry average of 9.7%.
Will Dunnett, Managing Director of Hull Trains says: “If we are successful in our plans, then these new units will bring an even higher quality environment for passengers with new interiors, enhanced catering, air-conditioning and a quieter environment due to electric traction – all areas that we know are important to passengers.”
Ensuring that the region is not disadvantaged in any way by delays to electrification plans is at the heart of these proposals. Mr Dunnett says: “In a nutshell, the Bi-Mode units deliver the benefits of electrification now. But as a result of their bi-mode capability, they also ensure that we can continue to serve stations such as Beverley after electrification of the Hull to Selby track is completed.
“The dual-function of the units also means that we can keep passengers on trains during times of disruption to the East Coast Mainline, which we would not be able to do in fully-electric units.
“Crucially, our plans will generate additional permanent job creation for the region as well as growth in the local economy through improved connectivity and journey times and ensuring that East Yorkshire and Humberside continues to benefit from a high-speed, first-class rail service.”
Editors notes:
Hull Trains’ £65million investment in high-speed Bi-Mode units will bring benefits to the region in the form of:
 50% seating capacity increase – the fleet will increase to five units with up to 320 seats on each - versus a current capacity of 266 seats in a Class 180 unit
 Faster speeds – the new units will have the potential for top-speeds of 140mph, compared to the current Class 180s speeds of 125mph
 Job creation – Hull Trains’ plans will lead to additional permanent job creation for Hull Trains and our local partners
 Environmental benefits – through more efficient trains with a lower carbon footprint
Hull Trains continues to top the National Passenger Survey for satisfaction. This year’s survey, published in June 2015, showed that Hull Trains scored the highest for passenger satisfaction at 96%, compared to a national average score for other operators this year of just 80%.
Hull Trains also topped the national league table for punctuality, reliability and passenger comfort.

Posted: 03/09/2015

I see no Class 800, Hitachi or AT300 in there, neither do I see "ordered".

See more at: http://www.hulltrains.co.uk/about-u...nsultation-for-high-speed-units/#.Ve8unoZ4WnM

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Sigh...

Press release here....



I see no Class 800, Hitachi or AT300 in there, neither do I see "ordered".

See more at: http://www.hulltrains.co.uk/about-u...nsultation-for-high-speed-units/#.Ve8unoZ4WnM

I see:

Bi-Mode trains, which are capable of both electric, and diesel operation

afaik class 800s are the only bi-mode trains either being made or going to be made

 

[ainsworth74]

afaik class 800s are the only bi-mode trains either being made or going to be made

They are the only ones that currently meet the requirements as laid out by HT and fit within our loading gauge. There are other bi-modes available for example some variants of the Bombardier AGC.

 

[Clarence Yard]

There has been a lot of press on this but just retreading the original "story" linking the new trains with Hitachi, which Hull Trains, probably for diplomatic reasons with manufacturers, has been careful not to explicitly say in their release.

The application Form P for the track access rights (see NR website) has to be a bit more specific and anybody reading that will have clearly seen that they are intending to replace the 180 fleet with AT300 units. If they want the units by January 2020, they are really the only option.

So the press have put two and two together and made almost 4. They have, probably because they don't know this, ignored the fact that placing an actual order depends on the ORR approving the rights.

 

[westv]

Why does it take 5 years (or more?) to get new trains? Or do HT think the old stock won't be redundant until then?

 

[IanXC]

Why does it take 5 years (or more?) to get new trains? Or do HT think the old stock won't be redundant until then?

Presumably because Hitachi are busy till then...

 

[WatcherZero]

They are looking at 2020 replacement so they don't need them till 2019.

 

[The Ham]

Why does it take 5 years (or more?) to get new trains? Or do HT think the old stock won't be redundant until then?

I would suggest that HT have a contract to use the 180's until the end of their current agreement to run services. That then means that it is likely that even if they got new trains before then that they would have to pay for the 180's even if they were not using them (unless they knew that they could sub lease them to someone else).

 

[TheNewNo2]

Just because the trains can change on the move is there any obligation on NR to provide capable infrastructure to enable them to do so?

Well if they can change on the go, then on the way to Hull they power up the diesels and drop the pan. On the way back, they run diesel to wherever the first electrified stop is and then go electric.

That is of course assuming that catenaries are not capable of just having a pan put up at speed.

 

[class26]

Well if they can change on the go, then on the way to Hull they power up the diesels and drop the pan. On the way back, they run diesel to wherever the first electrified stop is and then go electric.

That is of course assuming that catenaries are not capable of just having a pan put up at speed.

Surely the Doncaster stop is the place to make the change ?

 

[HSTEd]

They could run the diesels at idle from Doncaster or wherever and drop the pan when they see the "Electric Train Stop" board.

The pan can certainly be pulled down at speed - it happens all the time after all.

 

[D365]

They could run the diesels at idle from Doncaster or wherever and drop the pan when they see the "Electric Train Stop" board.

The pan can certainly be pulled down at speed - it happens all the time after all.

As a current example of that, I believe the AC/DC changeover on the WLL takes place at 20mph.

Is it known at what speed the changeover can/will take place on any given AT300 train?

 

[swt_passenger]

As a current example of that, I believe the AC/DC changeover on the WLL takes place at 20mph.

Is it known at what speed the changeover can/will take place on any given AT300 train?

The required functionality for IEP was in the train technical spec as:

TS1577 It is an essential requirement that a bi-mode IEP train shall be capable of switching between modes whilst at any speed from stationary up to line speed.

Doesn't necessarily follow for anything else of course...

 

[D365]

The required functionality for IEP was in the train technical spec as:



Doesn't necessarily follow for anything else of course...

Yes I understand as much, but does that mean that it shall be capable of dropping the pantograph at 125/140mph and coasting to 100mph [diesel cruising speed]?

 

[route:oxford]

Yes I understand as much, but does that mean that it shall be capable of dropping the pantograph at 125/140mph and coasting to 100mph [diesel cruising speed]?

Now, if that's the case. (I've no idea if 100mph is the limit).

Where in the network do (and will) the wires stop and the track continues at 125mph capable?

At this point, how far could a unit potentially travel before the speed reduces from 125mph to 100mph without driver intervention?

 

[westv]

Seeing as the speed limit from Selby to Hull is about 50mph I'd think an electric/diesel changeover on the move should be simple.

Ok I exaggerate about the speed. Whatever it is it just seems leisurely after 125mph.

 

[jimm]

Surely the Doncaster stop is the place to make the change ?

Not really, given that there is catenary all the way to Temple Hirst junction, where the Selby bypass line diverges from the old ECML through the town.

But on the GW routes, the change will happen in the stations at the likes of Oxford (for the Cotswold Line), Swindon (for Cheltenham) and Bristol Temple Meads (for Weston and Taunton) as there won't be wiring beyond any of those points on the route involved but the West Country services which don't call at Newbury will be making the changeover at speed.

 

[class26]

Seeing as the speed limit from Selby to Hull is about 50mph I'd think an electric/diesel changeover on the move should be simple.

Ok I exaggerate about the speed. Whatever it is it just seems leisurely after 125mph.

More like 75 mph

 

[ainsworth74]

I think these plans were already known but it appears that HT have now placed their order and firmed things up a bit:

Hull Trains has today announced a massive £60million investment in a brand new fleet of high-tech Hitachi trains that will deliver 50% extra seating, additional services, enhanced interiors and the potential for faster speeds.

The multi-million pound deal follows the company’s recent success in securing an unprecedented track access extension from the Office of Rail and Road, which gives Hull Trains customers certainty of direct services to and from London until 2029.

Will Dunnett, Managing Director of Hull Trains says: “At the heart of these plans is our commitment to keeping local people and businesses connected to the capital. The brand new trains will increase our fleet from four units to five with an extra 20% seating capacity on each. In total, this means we can serve 50% more customers than we do today. The trains are also faster and will offer state-of-the-art comfort for our customers. We will also be announcing additional services in response to customer demand.”

Hitachi will now build five AT300 trains of five carriages each. The units will be able to travel on the electrified East Coast Main Line from London King’s Cross and then on diesel power on the unelectrified line to Hull and Beverley, giving Hull customers access to the benefits of the East Coast Main Line electrified track to London for the very first time.

Jon Plowright, Head of Engineering at Hull Trains says: “These Bi-Mode trains will bring the benefits of electrification to our region, ensuring that Hull and the East Riding remains competitive and connected to the capital in the long term. Our maintenance contract with Hitachi also secures the services of our existing maintenance team, securing nine jobs for our region.”

The benefits of the new trains include:

• More seats – 327 seats in total, 20% more than the current services
• Greater comfort – new interiors, air conditioning, Wi-Fi, power sockets
• Quieter and more environmentally friendly – electric power is quieter with lower emissions
• Reduced journey time possible – the new trains will have faster acceleration and a higher top speed of 225km/h

Hull Trains is a high-profile advocate for the city of Hull and a great success story in the industry. Last month, it was crowned the UK’s Rail Operator of the Year and consistently scores amongst the highest customer satisfaction levels of any operator in the country.

Will Dunnett continues: “Our current trains have served us well and we intend to continue to invest in these units to ensure they are fit for the next three years.

“Our plans include an additional three quarters of a million pound investment to further improve our on-board service facilities, including enhancements to our first class and buffet catering facilities. We have also innovative installed Passenger Information Screens on all our units as well as introducing new on-board CCTV to enhance the security and peace of mind of our customers.”

The new units will enter service for Hull Trains in 2019.

Karen Boswell, Managing Director of Hitachi Rail Europe said: "Customers travelling on Hull Trains services between Yorkshire and London will enjoy a host of benefits from new Hitachi Inter City trains, which are modernising rail travel on routes across the UK. These trains have been designed to increase the number of seats available whilst harnessing the latest in comfort design to boost passenger experiences.

“Using our innovative bi-mode power model, these trains can begin operation immediately on the UK rail network which means passengers won’t have to wait to enjoy the new benefits.

“This is the start of a long-term relationship between Hitachi and Hull Trains and, following our recent train and maintenance order from FirstGroup’s TransPennine Express franchise, another sign of our strong commitment to the Northern Powerhouse.”

So five units with five cars each giving a not insubstantial uplift in capacity. Which, in my recent experience, is very much needed! This is going to be very good for Hull Trains and they continue, to my mind, to show what OAOs should be about.

Source

 

[Harbornite]

Good to know, this will do away with the rather lengthy under-the-wire mileage on the East Coast Mainline. Let's hope that the Crosscountry franchise ends up getting the HSTs from Grand Central that will in turn be freed up by the ex Hull Trains 180s!

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

I just hope they have working catering onboard... Often see on their twitter page warnings of no hot or cold drinks, hot or cold snacks and, on one occasion, no operational AirCon!

Will the new units go to Botanic for fuel and light maintenance?

 

[IanXC]

Good to know, this will do away with the rather lengthy under-the-wire mileage on the East Coast Mainline. Let's hope that the Crosscountry franchise ends up getting the HSTs from Grand Central that will in turn be freed up by the ex Hull Trains 180s!

HTs 180s aren't spoken for at this stage. GC are taking on GWs. And XC have a new Direct Award which doesn't allow for more HSTs.

 

[800001]

As a current example of that, I believe the AC/DC changeover on the WLL takes place at 20mph.

Is it known at what speed the changeover can/will take place on any given AT300 train?

Regards dropping pantographs, 91's near Retford the other week, were accelerating to 125mph linespeed, then dropping there pantograph so that they could coast through the affected area.

 

[The 4th Rail]

I know it's just an artists impression, but why does the yellow end not go all the way up to windscreen like the other 800's?
Looks a bit weird imo. Like two forum members got in argument about whether they should be abolished and ended up in an awkward compromise.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think it looks quite attractive, personally. But I do like that livery. For all the "gWr" concept is nice, I think the Dynamic Lines livery and its siblings is a good modern colour scheme, and the deep blue interior is also nice.

I think it's a real shame Dynamic Lines never made it onto buses.

 

[Harbornite]

I know it's just an artists impression, but why does the yellow end not go all the way up to windscreen like the other 800's?
Looks a bit weird imo. Like two forum members got in argument about whether they should be abolished and ended up in an awkward compromise.

I hope that Hull trains don't change their livery because dynamic lines looks really good there on these units. It goes without saying that an opportunity to see dynamic lines on AT300s when FGW decided to go retro.

 

[leomartin125]

I think it looks quite attractive, personally. But I do like that livery. For all the "gWr" concept is nice, I think the Dynamic Lines livery and its siblings is a good modern colour scheme, and the deep blue interior is also nice.

I think it's a real shame Dynamic Lines never made it onto buses.

I personally believe that Dynamic Lines will be dropped with the introduction of the IEP's to Hull Trains. Neither GWR or Transpennine Express are implementing the 'Dynamic Lines' C/S onto their IEP's so I can't really see Hull Trains sticking with it. I could see a revitalised livery coming though, like Transpennine have recently done with their 185's.

 

[J-2739]

One of the ugliest Hitachi I have ever seen in my life. Just paint it black.

 

[The Ham]

HTs 180s aren't spoken for at this stage. GC are taking on GWs. And XC have a new Direct Award which doesn't allow for more HSTs.

HT's AT300's aren't coming along until 2019, given that XC's direct award finishes soon after the cascade could be possible as part of the next franchise.