Hull Trains' Seventh Weekday Service?

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Max

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From The Hull Daily Mail:

CAPITAL GAINS

26 July 2006

Thousands of commuters could benefit from improved rail services between Hull and London.

Hull Trains wants to introduce a seventh direct daily weekday service to the capital.

It introduced a sixth daily train a year ago and has since seen passenger numbers rocket by 42 per cent.

Now it hopes adding another service to its timetable will help attract thousands more passengers.

It will be aimed primarily at businesspeople and day-trippers and will start its return journey from London at about 6.30pm or 7pm.

Mark Leving, managing director of Hull Trains, said: "The popularity and demand for services continues to grow and, in response to this, we are working to expand the services we offer.

"We are considering the introduction of an additional daily service during the week and are working with relevant organisations to achieve this.

"It is hoped an additional service will provide more choice and flexibility for passengers, especially business passengers who commute on a regular basis.

"We intend to present a robust case to support the high demand for additional services and the economic viability of a seventh service, which would bring major benefits to the region."

From April to June last year, 98,654 passengers used the Hull to London link. During the same period this year, Hull Trains carried 139,938 people - an increase of 42 per cent.

Councillor Andy Sloan, Hull City Council's cabinet member with responsibility for the economy, said: "The company has to be applauded for its entrepreneurial spirit. Hull Trains introduced something people and businesses clearly want. The more links we have with the rest of the country, the better."

Willerby-based celebrity hairdresser Mark Hill is a frequent traveller to the capital on Hull Trains.

The award-winning stylist welcomed the idea of a seventh service, saying: "I've probably travelled on every single train service in Britain and I'd say Hull Trains is superior to them all.

"The service is top-class and I always recommend it to clients over using other operators.

"Hopefully it will encourage more people to travel between the two cities."

Nick Pontone, manager of Hull Business Forum, said: "Hull Trains has been fantastic for Hull.

"It has taken people to and from London in comfort with a high level of service.

"It has also helped bring a lot of people into the city, which has been hugely beneficial for Hull and its business community.

"I would welcome any future services that are planned."

Emma Pearson-Kendall, of regeneration company Cityimage, said: "As London is the economic heart of the country, it is imperative to Hull's success that access to and from the capital is frequent, efficient and comfortable.

"Hull Trains already offers a service that is the envy of other cities."


In my opinion, this is great news for both businessmen and leisure travellers in Hull as it offers a far more attractive departure time from the capital. However, I could see such a service potentially requiring more than 4 cars depending on the availability of seats and the number of people that decide to use it over the exisiting GNER Hull Executive service. It does seem a waste of space at such a busy time out of Kings Cross.

Anyway, one thing is for sure, GNER (and Yorkie ;)) aren't going to like these proposals one bit!
 
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Coxster

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Not sure I believe the award-winning stylist has travelled on "nearly all train services in Britain" - not even Joy54 has done that! ;)
 

Table 52

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I think there's a good case for scrapping the Hull Exec and letting Hull Trains run the service instead.
 

Ben

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Coxster said:
Not sure I believe the award-winning stylist has travelled on "nearly all train services in Britain" - not even Joy54 has done that! ;)
The Media dont know a TOC from a Service. ;)
 

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Aye. My answer to this: "The award-winning stylist welcomed the idea of a seventh service, saying: "I've probably travelled on every single train service in Britain and I'd say Hull Trains is superior to them all." is:

Bollocks.

I reckon we could each name ten services he hasn't done, easy.

HT superior to GNER, even I, comparing the 222s to a GNER HST, say that is bollocks. Even MML are better than HT. Although I do reckon the HT 222s are better than the Mallards by a million miles. My sister confirmed my opinion after bashing one on KGX - Grantham, her opinion was that the seats were uncomfortable and cramped. Thank you to her! That's two people against the world on the subject of Mallards then!

*Sharpens axe, drops it over several rakes of Mallard sets...Muahahahaha* <D
 

Max

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It doesn't just relate to the type of seats! More important should be the food offerings, the customer service and such like. In my experiences, the buffet on Hull Trains is very reasonably priced and excellent, and the food in first class is superb.

The customer service on board is always top notch, and I find the staff to be friendly and polite. Meanwhile, I think many of the GNER staff are completely different.
 

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Coxster said:
Not sure I believe the award-winning stylist has travelled on "nearly all train services in Britain" - not even Joy54 has done that! ;)
Hmmm....I think he may contest that opinion!!
 

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laverack222 said:
It doesn't just relate to the type of seats! More important should be the food offerings, the customer service and such like. In my experiences, the buffet on Hull Trains is very reasonably priced and excellent, and the food in first class is superb.

The customer service on board is always top notch, and I find the staff to be friendly and polite. Meanwhile, I think many of the GNER staff are completely different.
Hmm, try telling to hundreds of passengers squeezed on FCC trains like sardines, that capacity isn't as important as a few people from Hull getting nice food on a short train taking the path that an FCC or GNER could use. I can imagine what they'd say, and I'll leave you to imagine too ;)
[EDIT]
Table 52 said:
I think there's a good case for scrapping the Hull Exec and letting Hull Trains run the service instead.
That would be a price rise by stealth for that time of day, as the Hull Executive has more availablity of £9.50 singles than any other train - in my experience - in the morning heading to London from Doncaster, for example. HT charge around 50% extra for the cheapest seats, and there would also be far fewer of them on that train if it was a 4-car DMU.
 

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yorkie said:
Hmm, try telling to hundreds of passengers squeezed on FCC trains like sardines, that capacity isn't as important as a few people from Hull getting nice food on a short train taking the path that an FCC or GNER could use. I can imagine what they'd say, and I'll leave you to imagine too ;)
Well if you read my first post you will see that I believe it is a waste of capacity :p;)

There are rumours that Hull Trains may have to hire a short HST set to cover for the lack of 222 availability.
 

yorkie

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laverack222 said:
Well if you read my first post you will see that I believe it is a waste of capacity :p;)

There are rumours that Hull Trains may have to hire a short HST set to cover for the lack of 222 availability.
Yes, you do, but you also say that food is more important than capacity. "It doesn't just relate to the type of seats! More important should be the food offerings, the customer service and such like. "
 

Max

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yorkie said:
Yes, you do, but you also say that food is more important than capacity. "It doesn't just relate to the type of seats! More important should be the food offerings, the customer service and such like. "
Well I admit my statement was a little ambiguous. I was referring more to the comfort and size of the seats rather than the number, in response to some of the comparative comments about Mallards and 222s posted above.

I agree that Hull Trains would be better off with longer trains, perhaps short HSTs or longer 222s.
 

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If you want to talk capacity, why not blame FCC for sticking with the little 3 car 313s, and running single 317 and 365 units through Welwyn North :)

GNER as it is is a finished match anyway, it'll be gone by the end of the year.
 

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David, no, I'm standing firm on my opinion of Mallards here. They stink (figuratively), give me the old MK4 ANY day. Failing that, a Voyager, a Meridian (whoops, umm, maybe not, I'll get back to you), a Pacer, a 321...You might get the idea by now, that I'd rather anything to a Mallard. Just about. And you'd be right.

I do believe most people would rather a decent service at a reasonable rate than have a less than decent service compensated by food which next to no-one likes at prices everyone hates...
 

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WSXFan said:
David, no, I'm standing firm on my opinion of Mallards here. They stink (figuratively), give me the old MK4 ANY day. Failing that, a Voyager, a Meridian (whoops, umm, maybe not, I'll get back to you), a Pacer, a 321...You might get the idea by now, that I'd rather anything to a Mallard. Just about. And you'd be right.
Im not a fan of Mallarded sets also, however the old interior was also very dated and grim. I never sampled it, but from old photographs the MK4 FC seemed to be "comfier" than the Mallard's really unpleasant "curving inwards" seats. It will also be a shame when the GNER HST's get refurbed, losing the tasteful cream interior to leather seats, which will be awfully sticky when your sweating on a hot day!
 

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yorkie said:
That would be a price rise by stealth for that time of day, as the Hull Executive has more availablity of £9.50 singles than any other train - in my experience - in the morning heading to London from Doncaster, for example. HT charge around 50% extra for the cheapest seats, and there would also be far fewer of them on that train if it was a 4-car DMU.
It would be a £5.50 rise for those folks who book advance purchase tickets. For the folks on standard open singles, it would be a £20.00 discount. Therefore I would say on the whole it's a price drop.
 

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yorkie said:
.... as the Hull Executive has more availablity of £9.50 singles than any other train....
Then GNER must have trouble filling it then. ;)

I've never sampled Hull Trains as I've never needed to be in that sort of area. I keep reading peoples opinion that it seems one of the better TOCs though. :)
 

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Table 52 said:
It would be a £5.50 rise for those folks who book advance purchase tickets. For the folks on standard open singles, it would be a £20.00 discount. Therefore I would say on the whole it's a price drop.
But how many people do you know who buy Standard Open tickets?

Chaz said:
Then GNER must have trouble filling it then. ;)

I've never sampled Hull Trains as I've never needed to be in that sort of area. I keep reading peoples opinion that it seems one of the better TOCs though. :)
It's always going to be harder to fill a train from Hull compared with Newcastle or Leeds. Therefore it is illogical to run more trains to/from Hull at the expense of Newcastle/Leeds services.
 

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yorkie said:
It's always going to be harder to fill a train from Hull compared with Newcastle or Leeds. Therefore it is illogical to run more trains to/from Hull at the expense of Newcastle/Leeds services.
I never suggested that more trains should go to Hull by GNER.

Then a 222 would be better than a HST if it can't fill it. Plus GNER gain an extra set that could be used on other services and the extra path can be given to Hull Trains to accommodate the extra flux of passengers.
 

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Chaz said:
I never suggested that more trains should go to Hull by GNER.
I didn't say you were suggesting that, although it is irrelevant whether they are by GNER or HT, IMO - Hull simply shouldn't get more trains regardless of operator.
Chaz said:
Then a 222 would be better than a HST if it can't fill it. Plus GNER gain an extra set that could be used on other services and the extra path can be given to Hull Trains to accommodate the extra flux of passengers.
I don't think a 222 would go down too well at peak time out of King's Cross.

I still don't think extra paths should be given to Hull Trains, and anyone who travels on services such as the 09:38 from York to London which is sometimes full and standing from York, would probably realise why.
 

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yorkie said:
But how many people do you know who buy Standard Open tickets?
I used this an an example. There would be savings across all walk up tickets. Including savers which I know a lot of people buy!


It's always going to be harder to fill a train from Hull compared with Newcastle or Leeds. Therefore it is illogical to run more trains to/from Hull at the expense of Newcastle/Leeds services.
So let Hull Trains run the hull exec with their smaller trains so that GNER stock can be better utuilised.
 

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Table 52 said:
I used this an an example. There would be savings across all walk up tickets. Including savers which I know a lot of people buy!
But how many people would buy a TOC-specific one? You can't even excess them to an "Any Permitted". If people want the flexibility of a Saver, they would not restrict themselves to very few trains.

Table 52 said:
So let Hull Trains run the hull exec with their smaller trains so that GNER stock can be better utuilised.
I don't think that would go down to well on the 17:20 from King's Cross, you'd have a lot of people left standing or unable to board. And if the numbers travelling to Hull were so low that local DMU type trains should be used then, quite frankly, the service should not run. GNER stock can only be utilised if platforms and paths are available and not used up by 4-car DMUs.
 

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yorkie said:
I don't think that would go down to well on the 17:20 from King's Cross, you'd have a lot of people left standing or unable to board. And if the numbers travelling to Hull were so low that local DMU type trains should be used then, quite frankly, the service should not run. GNER stock can only be utilised if platforms and paths are available and not used up by 4-car DMUs.
So 4 Car Meridians/Pioneers are now "Local Trains". If you say so!
 

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Chaz said:
So 4 Car Meridians/Pioneers are now "Local Trains". If you say so!
I'd say they are suitable for routes such as Hull-Manchester, journeys that are relatively local but require a decent type of DMU.
 

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yorkie said:
But how many people would buy a TOC-specific one? You can't even excess them to an "Any Permitted". If people want the flexibility of a Saver, they would not restrict themselves to very few trains.
There is still a fair bit of flexability- the 1720 being a HT service would mean 1612, 1720 and 1936. Suddenly what was over a 3 hour gap is now 2 much smaller gaps.

And it would be a happy medium for all these people buying cheap advance purchase tix (you did say there's loads on the 1720)- bit more flexability but at a lower cost.


I don't think that would go down to well on the 17:20 from King's Cross, you'd have a lot of people left standing or unable to board. And if the numbers travelling to Hull were so low that local DMU type trains should be used then, quite frankly, the service should not run. GNER stock can only be utilised if platforms and paths are available and not used up by 4-car DMUs.[/QUOTE]

Earlier in the thread, you said it's harder to fill a Hull train than a Newcastle one. So run a 4 coach Hull service and the GNER stock could be used to allow say the 1630 KGX-NCL to run to Edinburgh, by having it there for the old return working in NCL.
 

yorkie

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To clarify: I've found cheap tickets on the up Hull Executive, not the down Hull Executive. The down train departs at the height of peak time and I am sure commuters for Peterborough and Newark, at least, would ensure it's very busy.

In the up direction it gets to King's Cross too late for many commuters, so that's a bit different.
 
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