Hulley's of Baslow

[IamTrainsYT]

Sorry, I meant the three registrations I quoted. I can find YJ57XWR on bustimes against Hulleys but only for a few months, and YJ57XWN only shows under Go Coach.

XWN (2) was the plain white one involved in the “bradwell incident” on a 173 and was subsequently scrapped

XWR (14) was also written off but I can’t remember where or when

 

[Teapot42]

XWN (2) was the plain white one involved in the “bradwell incident” on a 173 and was subsequently scrapped

Is that the one that ended up in a field? Saw the photo but didn't hear what actually happened.

XWR (14) was also written off but I can’t remember where or when

Hulleys definitely suffered 'bad luck' when it comes to vehicles being written off or badly damaged and needing repair. That's at least 4 Solos (those two, the Newbury one that caught fire and took out the Scania, and 10 - which was repaired) and two E400s I can think of involved in incidents.

Did repairs ever start on 16?

While all companies suffer incidents (I can think of at least 4 in Stagecoach Yorkshire in the last year or so for example) the ratio to fleet size seems significant, and possibly a contributory factor to the demise.

 

[mangad]

I drove past the Andrews garage, and they even have a Hulley's double-decker (the one that lost its roof on hitting a bridge) in their yard.

 

[38291018]

I mean not actually seen it but I'll assume it be for parts I can't imagine them going to repair it if its hit a bridge and ripped the roof off although could be wrong

 

[zkyx02]

I mean not actually seen it but I'll assume it be for parts I can't imagine them going to repair it if its hit a bridge and ripped the roof off although could be wrong

The engine is going into a solo & then it’ll likely be scrapped.

 

[JD2168]

Drove past the Andrews garage and they even have that Hulleys double decker that lost its roof on hitting a bridge in their yard.

I would think a source of spares as the other deckers at Andrews are of the same type & length

 

[grumpyoldman01]

I drove up the A619 from Chesterfield to Wadshelf on Thursday, and it seemed most strange not to see at least one Hulley's bus

 

[IamTrainsYT]

I would think a source of spares as the other deckers at Andrews are of the same type & length

Correct, YX57XWP gets the engine. LJ09KPK gets the wiring loom and the rest are spares for as/when required

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Apr 2025 ==

Did repairs ever start on 16?

From what i’ve been told it was sent to a scrapyard but don’t quote me on that

 

[MotCO]

The engine is going into a solo & then it’ll likely be scrapped.

Are the engines the same? Are we going to see a souped-up Solo racing round the roads?

 

[Teapot42]

Are the engines the same? Are we going to see a souped-up Solo racing round the roads?

I was wondering the same! From what I could find online there are versions of the ISB 6.7l with various power ratings, but it seems the Solo gets the lowest, 185 bhp. I'd be surprised if an E400 could run with that little, but maybe they can be remapped.

I believe 3 had been upgraded to Euro VI but I'm not sure that can be transferred, as I think it's linked with the vehicle itself, not the engine / exhaust.

 

[IamTrainsYT]

Are the engines the same? Are we going to see a souped-up Solo racing round the roads?

No but YJ57XWP has the same engine fitted and was *very* rapid

 

[MotCO]

No but YJ57XWP has the same engine fitted and was *very* rapid

(Maybe it was to help Hulleys adhere to their tight timetables!)

 

[duncombec]

The initial "Statement of Affairs" from the liquidator was posted to Companies House on 1 May. (Apologies, but the direct link is several lines of auto-generated code, but can be downloaded from the "Filing History" page here: https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/02280297/filing-history).

It would need someone more skilled than me to identify any financial causes, but it does include a lengthy list of "part B" creditors. To avoid the thread being closed, it would perhaps be sensible to stick to factual commentary rather than any guesswork or opinion.

No such information has yet been posted for the "Modeldart" holding company.

 

[SCH117X]

Largest creditor after HMRC is Harrogate Coach Travel at £350,000.
Vehicle asset are merely £7,130.21 which could be the one vehicle that did not move on.

 

[Teapot42]

Vehicle asset are merely £7,130.21 which could be the one vehicle that did not move on.

It may not even be a bus. There were various pool cars, plus they recently bought a van fitted out with toilet and kitchen facilities.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 May 2025 ==

It would need someone more skilled than me to identify any financial causes, but it does include a lengthy list of "part B" creditors. To avoid the thread being closed, it would perhaps be sensible to stick to factual commentary rather than any guesswork or opinion.

Quite a long list, and it would suggest some businesses have been allowing debt to accrue for some time. Ticketer for example are owed a decent sum. Quite a lot of small local suppliers - which may explain something I heard towards the end. They were struggling to get an auto electrician to fix several vehicles. Maybe many suppliers refused to work with them after bills went unpaid?

One thing of note - £189k was owned to Baslow Properties. This will be linked to the depot as it's owned by the Eades family. It suggests that reports of the rent being peppercorn are incorrect, but also that they were very tolerant of rent not being paid.

No such information has yet been posted for the "Modeldart" holding company.

It's only Hulleys which have declared insolvency though. Modeldart was just a holding company

As an aside, I've heard a few things - which I won't repeat on here until they become public - which may indicate there is more to come out from this whole sorry saga.

 

[duncombec]

Andrews has been tracking on bustimes since Wednesday 7th.

Ashbourne CT still don't in terms of 110 and 111, although curiously they have long done so for their A53 service (only).

 

[duffield]

Andrews has been tracking on bustimes since Wednesday 7th.

Ashbourne CT still don't in terms of 110 and 111, although curiously they have long done so for their A53 service (only).

I wonder if it's a contract requirement for Ashbourne CT to provide tracking for the 110/111 at some point? It's pretty important for these sort of infrequent services, particularly with all the traffic and roadwork delays.

 

[Hyebone]

I wonder if it's a contract requirement for Ashbourne CT to provide tracking for the 110/111 at some point? It's pretty important for these sort of infrequent services, particularly with all the traffic and roadwork delays.

If I'm honest, I can't see Ashbourne CT holding onto the 110/111 for too long as they don't have suitable vehicles

 

[Teapot42]

Andrews has been tracking on bustimes since Wednesday 7th.

Either they have some very interesting operating practices, or it's not quite bedded in yet. For example, 13 buses have tracked today, but a some haven't actually operated a service.

There appears to be an E400 solely doing the Bakewell town circular - if this is correct it's sitting idle in Bakewell for 50 minutes of each hour, not to mention being rather over-sized for the service.

 

[markymark2000]

I wonder if it's a contract requirement for Ashbourne CT to provide tracking for the 110/111 at some point? It's pretty important for these sort of infrequent services, particularly with all the traffic and roadwork delays.

A number of councils only make it a contract requirement that the operator sends AVL data to the councils systems (for council monitoring or any real time systems which the councils have), with no mention of public tracking (via bus open data). To the contrary infact, almost all councils almost all refuse to ensure that any operator complies with bus open data legislation (I mean, why would councils care if they are giving money to companies who knowingly and willingly break the law!?)

With specific regards to Ashbourne CT, I can't see any record of a registration for the 110/111 on Ashbourne CTs operators licence. And even if they do register/have registered the service, Ashbourne CT haven't properly complied with bus open data ever so it wouldn't surprise me if the 110/111 doesn't comply either. And sadly because of how poor our regulators are, they will continue to get away with flouting the law.

Either they have some very interesting operating practices, or it's not quite bedded in yet. For example, 13 buses have tracked today, but a some haven't actually operated a service.

There appears to be an E400 solely doing the Bakewell town circular - if this is correct it's sitting idle in Bakewell for 50 minutes of each hour, not to mention being rather over-sized for the service.

Andrews does seem a bit strange with how they have their duties. But I suppose they have less potential for efficiency when they don't have as many routes as Hulleys had, and I'm not sure if Andrews works off a 'driver keeps the bus' style of working as I note the 173 the normal bus now comes off for a lunch break another vehicle takes over for a round trip, but with Hulleys the 173 bus I believed stayed on the 173 all day.

 

[Trainman40083]

A number of councils only make it a contract requirement that the operator sends AVL data to the councils systems (for council monitoring or any real time systems which the councils have), with no mention of public tracking (via bus open data). To the contrary infact, almost all councils almost all refuse to ensure that any operator complies with bus open data legislation (I mean, why would councils care if they are giving money to companies who knowingly and willingly break the law!?)

With specific regards to Ashbourne CT, I can't see any record of a registration for the 110/111 on Ashbourne CTs operators licence. And even if they do register/have registered the service, Ashbourne CT haven't properly complied with bus open data ever so it wouldn't surprise me if the 110/111 doesn't comply either. And sadly because of how poor our regulators are, they will continue to get away with flouting the law.


Andrews does seem a bit strange with how they have their duties. But I suppose they have less potential for efficiency when they don't have as many routes as Hulleys had, and I'm not sure if Andrews works off a 'driver keeps the bus' style of working as I note the 173 the normal bus now comes off for a lunch break another vehicle takes over for a round trip, but with Hulleys the 173 bus I believed stayed on the 173 all day.

Maybe Andrews use the bus as a crew rest room, to keep it local for Lady Manners School workings.

 

[Teapot42]

A number of councils only make it a contract requirement that the operator sends AVL data to the councils systems (for council monitoring or any real time systems which the councils have), with no mention of public tracking (via bus open data). To the contrary infact, almost all councils almost all refuse to ensure that any operator complies with bus open data legislation (I mean, why would councils care if they are giving money to companies who knowingly and willingly break the law!?)

I wonder if things are also complicated by the face the 110/1 are run by the Ashbourne Little Bus Company rather than Ashbourne CT? As an aside there is a note on their website saying they are reviewing the timetable due to long term roadworks so there may be changes coming at some point soon.

It is rather funny that all these companies post a confirmation statement on Companies House saying they will comply with all applicable laws then knowingly flout this one!

Andrews does seem a bit strange with how they have their duties. But I suppose they have less potential for efficiency when they don't have as many routes as Hulleys had, and I'm not sure if Andrews works off a 'driver keeps the bus' style of working as I note the 173 the normal bus now comes off for a lunch break another vehicle takes over for a round trip, but with Hulleys the 173 bus I believed stayed on the 173 all day.

From some of the posts on the Facebook group it sounds like drivers swap buses during the day, and don't always stay on service work either.

Andrews pretty much took over the Hulleys timetables which meant they weren't able to optimise things. I'd be surprised if there aren't changes at some point - I know the council wanted to improve the 172 for example. Of course, now Reform are in charge priorities may have changed - I don't know their views on public transport and their election material didn't have anything on local issues so it's hard to tell what, if any, changes may now come. The previous person in charge of transport has also lost her seat, so I'd imagine whoever Reform choose to take on this role will need time to become familiar with things before making any major changes.

 

[Llandudno]

I wonder if things are also complicated by the face the 110/1 are run by the Ashbourne Little Bus Company rather than Ashbourne CT? As an aside there is a note on their website saying they are reviewing the timetable due to long term roadworks so there may be changes coming at some point soon.

It is rather funny that all these companies post a confirmation statement on Companies House saying they will comply with all applicable laws then knowingly flout this one!

From some of the posts on the Facebook group it sounds like drivers swap buses during the day, and don't always stay on service work either.

Andrews pretty much took over the Hulleys timetables which meant they weren't able to optimise things. I'd be surprised if there aren't changes at some point - I know the council wanted to improve the 172 for example. Of course, now Reform are in charge priorities may have changed - I don't know their views on public transport and their election material didn't have anything on local issues so it's hard to tell what, if any, changes may now come. The previous person in charge of transport has also lost her seat, so I'd imagine whoever Reform choose to take on this role will need time to become familiar with things before making any major changes.

Isn’t public transport for Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire now under the auspices of the new East Midlands Mayoral Authority which is Labour controlled?

 

[markymark2000]

I wonder if things are also complicated by the face the 110/1 are run by the Ashbourne Little Bus Company rather than Ashbourne CT? As an aside there is a note on their website saying they are reviewing the timetable due to long term roadworks so there may be changes coming at some point soon.

It is rather funny that all these companies post a confirmation statement on Companies House saying they will comply with all applicable laws then knowingly flout this one!

And as if by magic, at 6am this morning, Ashbourne CTs Bus Open Data timetable dataset was updated to include the 110/111 (they are still missing 1 of their other registered services so still not fully compliant). Sadly still no tracking as of yet. https://data.bus-data.dft.gov.uk/timetable/dataset/14644/

 

[Teapot42]

Isn’t public transport for Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire now under the auspices of the new East Midlands Mayoral Authority which is Labour controlled?

I believe it's changing, but not sure when. The county council did the retendering for Hulleys services. According to the East Midlands Authority website buses are moving during 2025 with all transport under their control by 2026.

Off Topic for this thread, but I really hope they are going to work with SYMCA and not treat Chesterfield and the Hope Valley as remote and ignore the fact we have stronger links to Sheffield than to other parts of the East Midlands.

 

[Omnidekkalover]

Ashbourne CT are tracking today

 

[markymark2000]

Ashbourne CT are tracking today

Not tracking properly though as it's not linking to trips which suggests something somewhere isn't set up right.

 

[RustySpoons]

Quite a sad read, from the Derbyshire Times. 'Former Hulleys of Baslow director who suffered stroke and heart attack speaks out after Derbyshire bus operator goes bust'

Full article quoted below to avoid you having to wade though countless pop ups and invasive advertising...

The former Hulleys of Baslow director has explained reasons behind the Derbyshire bus operator’s sudden closure.

Hulleys of Baslow, a Derbyshire based bus provider, ceased operating on March 25 – with liquidators revealing that the company owes over £1,300,000.
Founded in 1914 by Henry Hulley, the company began providing bus services in 1921, serving the Peak District and Derbyshire for over a century.

We spoke to Alf Crofts, the former managing director of Hulleys, to understand why the bus operator went bust.


Hulleys of Baslow, a Derbyshire based bus provider, ceased operating on March 25 – with liquidators revealing that the company owes over £1 300 000.

Alf first joined Hulleys as a bus driver in 2003 and 17 years later, in March 2020, he bought the company.


Alf said: “I joined as a driver and I used to help out in the office with scheduling. It always interested me. Hulleys had such a well known name and reputation, so being able to buy it in 2020 was like a dream come true.
"But it all went wrong. The first lockdown started just six days after I purchased Hulleys. Passenger numbers fell by 96%.

"Things were still difficult after the restrictions were lifted. We were operating Derbyshire County Councils contracts based on 2012 prices because the contracts hadn’t been renewed since then.”


Alf Crofts, the managing director of Hulleys of Baslow, faced a lot of difficulties after buying the company just six days before the first Covid lockdown.
The business faced further difficulties after Brexit – as getting replacement parts for broken down buses became harder.
Alf explained: “It took much longer to wait for parts to arrive because there was more checks happening. Instead of being off the road for a couple of days, a bus could be off the road for a month.”
To keep the company going, Alf took two loans with personal guarantees on them – meaning that if Hulleys went bust, any unpaid loans would become his personal debt.

He said: “I wanted to keep the Hulleys of Baslow going, keep people in work and provide bus services. I was always was of the opinion that until somebody told me to close down, I will carry on, one way or another, and I will keep it going.”

Buses blocking the Hulleys depot after the business went bust in March.
The stress of all the difficulties started impacting Alf’s health and in October 2024 he had a stroke.
He said: “The stroke happened when payroll software stopped working. I got put 4am and I started paying 72 people one by one to make sure it was all done before the start of work. I paid all wages but at that point I had a stroke.”
Alf’s health further deteriorated due to stress at work and on December 17, just two months after the stroke, he suffered a heart attack.

He said: “This was definitely linked to work. At the time I was trying to find someone to sell Hulleys to. It was just a week after I met with a former director of Go Coach who wanted to buy the company back from me for £1. Many of our busses were leased from Go Coach.”

Police were in attendance as drivers blocked the Hulleys of Baslow premises after the business went bust in March.
Alf Crofts bought Kent-based Go Coach in 2023 on a deferred consideration deal to provide a new fleet of buses for Hulleys of Baslow.
A deferred consideration deal is an agreement where a portion of the purchase price for an asset, often a business, is paid at a later date rather than upfront.
As Alf was looking for a potential buyer for Hulleys, more problems followed at the beginning of 2025 – when Derbyshire County Council took a number of bus routes away from the company, passing them on to other bus operators.

Alf said: “At the beginning the council told me it would be just two routes. But I found from a Facebook post that they would take away other routes as well.
"I did everything I could to keep the company going for as long as possible. But Hulleys finances weren't good, and we'd lost too many contracts. The insurance premium was operating on contracts and we could not keep going anymore.”
Before closing down the company, Alf decided to do everything he could to make sure his employees were not left stranded.

Founded in 1914 by Henry Hulley, the company began providing bus services in 1921, serving the Peak District and Derbyshire for over a century.
He said: “Everybody got a job, absolutely everybody. I made sure that all bus operators were aware of what was happening and helping the drivers to get jobs.

"Some people found jobs for themselves, but I rang around different companies when I knew who was going to get what contract and I tried to marry drivers with the services which I knew what they were good at.
“I made sure everyone got a job, while I was unemployed for nine weeks after we closed down.”
Speaking about the impact of Hulleys of Baslow going bust on his life, Alf said: “I've lost the use of my left side of my body and my left leg. I can't use a manual car because trying to operate a clutch means excruciating pain, so I have an automatic motability car.
“Putting personal guarantees on Hulleys loans means that now I have to pay it all back or go bankrupt. I lost my health and I got some very nasty allegations. I just want to try to move on.”

A spokesperson for Derbyshire County Council said: “We were very sorry to see Hulleys close down earlier this year. At the time they closed they ran a number of commercial services, but fortunately we were able to find alternative operators for the vast majority of them.
“Over the course of the past year or so we have done all we could to keep the company running. We helped out by being flexible with the payments we made to them to help with cash flow. We worked closely with them and kept them informed of any decisions we had made as they navigated this difficult period.
“Taking services off operators is always done as a last resort, but the services were becoming so unreliable that we had no choice. Services were cancelled at short notice, information was difficult to find, and some routes were driven missing parts out.
“The routes that Hulleys ran for us were paid for by council tax-payers, and we must ensure that we get what is being paid for. Unfortunately we reached the end of the line, and took the hard decision to take routes from the company.”

 

[Teapot42]

Quite a sad read, from the Derbyshire Times. 'Former Hulleys of Baslow director who suffered stroke and heart attack speaks out after Derbyshire bus operator goes bust'

Full article quoted below to avoid you having to wade though countless pop ups and invasive advertising...

While I do have sympathy for Alf, I feel he needed to know when to give up, and that time was probably 18 months before things finally imploded.

A typical DT article though - I'll refrain from calling it journalism as they don't ask any questions and obviously haven't done any background research otherwise they'd have not been quite so keen to print parts of the story...

As an aside, did anyone attend the PI or know anyone who did? The outcome is likely to be in the N&P next week, but there is likely to be a lot of background that would be very interesting reading.

 

[markymark2000]

As an aside, did anyone attend the PI or know anyone who did? The outcome is likely to be in the N&P next week, but there is likely to be a lot of background that would be very interesting reading.

I'd hope given it's significance, the Traffic Commissioner will do a full write up for this one. Though they have been rather lax on their fuller responses after public inquiries in recent months.