Hundreds of railway ticket offices could be closed

[142blue]

What's people's thoughts on this?

Unions warn of job losses if rail firms close ticket offices

Train operators are talking to unions about how to address job changes in a bid to modernise the railways

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Iskra]

Seems a sensible step towards cost control, it’s true that digital tickets are reducing the need for ticket offices.

However, if this is happening they should make rovers and rangers etc available digitally too.

 

[High Dyke]

One thing that would need to improve is the range of tickets available from ticket machines, and also having staff on hand to assist those that don't have access to online ticket purchasing.

 

[RPI]

This was always going to happen, the vast majority of passengers I see now have digital tickets

 

[Bletchleyite]

The need for booking offices has reduced substantially, so this is not surprising, and not helped by a significant minority of such staff acting in a manner that encourages closure.

If it's felt beneficial to have people there rather than nobody, favourable rents could be offered to people to open shops, cafes etc in the buildings.

 

[142blue]

I can see a future of retailing whilst mobile rather than being at desks / counters

Still need some way if printing to card tickets for seasons, area products, tickets crossing London etc but not in the way we have it now

Plus you then have cash sales where you could be attacked / mugged and the offender does one out of the station. Onboard at least they are captive to a train

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can see a future of retailing whilst mobile rather than being at desks / counters

You might find some TOCs have staff walking around assisting people at TVMs, yes.

Still need some way if printing to card tickets for seasons, area products, tickets crossing London etc but not in the way we have it now

Seasons of longer than a week could be sold online/by telephone only, or only at major stations (a single could be refunded against one if necessary). Crossing London has its own threads. Weeklies (already sold from TVMs) could be printed on bog roll, I see no reason why not. I suspect they already are if bought on-train.

Plus you then have cash sales where you could be attacked / mugged and the offender does one out of the station. Onboard at least they are captive to a train

I could see a possibility being some way for staff to control a TVM to do more than it normally would, then the TVM would take the cash. Or cash acceptance ceases (again has its own threads, but it is not out of the realm of possibility).

One thing that would need to improve is the range of tickets available from ticket machines

Most tickets already are. TOCs like SWR even have Boundary Zone tickets available. Rangers and Rovers are niche leisure products which I think could viably move online-only with a dedicated sales website.

Excesses are an elephant in the room, but move to single-fare pricing and there is no need for them - just refund and replace.

and also having staff on hand to assist those that don't have access to online ticket purchasing.

Sales by telephone for those who don't use the Internet would be the way. You could even have a button on a TVM to call telesales for free, should one have no telephone. Deaf people can be provided for, and already are, by way of textphone type services.

 

[pdeaves]

If the unions are as bothered as seems to be the case, let's hope that their response does not lead to strike action. The article suggests balloting for industrial action. A strike seems counter-productive to me: it will just accelerate any proposals not to need those self same staff.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If the unions are as bothered as seems to be the case, let's hope that their response does not lead to strike action. The article suggests balloting for industrial action. A strike seems counter-productive to me: it will just accelerate any proposals not to need those self same staff.

Indeed. Strikes in booking offices are pointless, as they can't affect the operation of the service. The outcome of such strikes is near-certain to be "Liverpool docker-esque", i.e. full closure and redundancy.

 

[py_megapixel]

I think it makes sense to close or downsize ticket offices if they are no longer needed, but they need to think carefully about which staff they make redundant. Some of them are fantastic and incredibly helpful; some of them seemingly don't have a clue what they're doing and can't be bothered to learn.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think it makes sense to close or downsize ticket offices if they are no longer needed, but they need to think carefully about which staff they make redundant. Some of them are fantastic and incredibly helpful; some of them seemingly don't have a clue what they're doing and can't be bothered to learn.

Indeed. I suspect many of the latter hate their job, so a well-targetted voluntary scheme might make sense first if you're going to keep booking offices at a small number of large stations, which to me would make sense even if you close all the suburban and small-station ones.

 

[03_179]

It's madness ... TfL did it and it causes issues with Tourists and the older generation who want a ticket.

Not all tickets are available on machines and certain ones would not be available on them either.

 

[Failed Unit]

GTR had this proposal a at the beginning of the Franchise, less booking offices more "customer ambassadors" At the time it was opposed on both sides.

Now however on many routes you can use contactless (KeyGo or Credit Card) and to be fair it is normally fairly accurate. You still see reasonably long queues in the morning, but often no-one at all when you pass during the day.

Personally I haven't used the ticket office for a while, either mobile tickets or KeyGo. That of course isn't to say that they have no place, but I suspect it is harder to justify them at some of the smaller stations. If you take the GTR Metro lines, most of them are in TfL smartcard areas and the ticket offices only opened for a short period of time anyway. But I couldn't comment if I went to say New Barnet at 0800 on Monday if people are still using the ticket office (if it is open). Personally if I want a paper ticket and the queue is small I will buy it from the window, if the queue is long I will go to the TVM.

 

[AlterEgo]

It's madness ... TfL did it and it causes issues with Tourists and the older generation who want a ticket.

Not all tickets are available on machines and certain ones would not be available on them either.

They all manage though, the ticketing system on the Tube is very simple and most metro systems across the world don't have people sitting behind glass to sell people very elementary tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They all manage though, the ticketing system on the Tube is very simple and most metro systems across the world don't have people sitting behind glass to sell people very elementary tickets.

When I'm a tourist I prefer TVMs anyway, much easier to press the English button than try to have a conversation with someone in broken English.

 

[43066]

If the unions are as bothered as seems to be the case, let's hope that their response does not lead to strike action. The article suggests balloting for industrial action. A strike seems counter-productive to me: it will just accelerate any proposals not to need those self same staff.

Ultimately it’s perfectly reasonable for unions to oppose job cuts and compulsory redundancies. In fact, it’s the reason they exist in the first place, so it’s hardly surprising they are opposed to these measures.

Sadly this is inevitable and has been a long time coming. Hopefully it can be dealt with by way of voluntary redundancies or redeployment.

 

[03_179]

They all manage though, the ticketing system on the Tube is very simple and most metro systems across the world don't have people sitting behind glass to sell people very elementary tickets.

Having seen many tourists at a TfL Underground station who have limited English struggle to work out they need a Oyster card is quite embarrassing. A number of the TfL staff aren't polite or patient with them either.
When they were able to go to an office ask about ticket they got what they needed.
Plus nice little earner to charge someone £3 (whet I paid a few years ago) for an Oyster Card and if they go home after their holiday they lose out.

 

[yoyothehobo]

I honestly cannot remember the last time i actually used a ticket office. Actually I can, it was activating my Japan Rail Pass and booking Shinkansen tickets in Tokyo.

In the UK, it must have been around 2009 to get an excess added to a single i had bought on a train as i had forgotten my railcard at home and bought a single on the train.

Even at Leeds which is a major station, i very rarely see more than 5 people queuing for the ticket office there. I suspect at many smaller stations if there are offices, they are mostly only open in the morning peak.

I struggle to believe that many people are coming to the UK and struggling to know how to travel on the underground. Going to Milan, Lisbon, Tokyo, Kyoto, Singapore etc... i looked up in advance what i needed and how to get do it. Very few ticket offices there.

In fact, the only place where there was a significant number of booking offices and staff was Japan, but the sheer numbers of people involved there i suppose makes it worthwhile. Rurally there were very few ticket offices again.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

They all manage though, the ticketing system on the Tube is very simple and most metro systems across the world don't have people sitting behind glass to sell people very elementary tickets.

They do on Merseyrail, where there are hardly any ATMs in any case.
No doubt the non-DfT TOCs will do their own thing.

 

[Class800]

I honestly cannot remember the last time i actually used a ticket office. Actually I can, it was activating my Japan Rail Pass and booking Shinkansen tickets in Tokyo.

In the UK, it must have been around 2009 to get an excess added to a single i had bought on a train as i had forgotten my railcard at home and bought a single on the train.

Even at Leeds which is a major station, i very rarely see more than 5 people queuing for the ticket office there. I suspect at many smaller stations if there are offices, they are mostly only open in the morning peak.

I struggle to believe that many people are coming to the UK and struggling to know how to travel on the underground. Going to Milan, Lisbon, Tokyo, Kyoto, Singapore etc... i looked up in advance what i needed and how to get do it. Very few ticket offices there.

In fact, the only place where there was a significant number of booking offices and staff was Japan, but the sheer numbers of people involved there i suppose makes it worthwhile. Rurally there were very few ticket offices again.

My last time was in 2021 to use RTVs - which still can't be used online, unlike many other types of vouchers, all it would take is a one-off voucher code that cannot be reused

 

[Bletchleyite]

They do on Merseyrail, where there are hardly any ATMs in any case.
No doubt the non-DfT TOCs will do their own thing.

Merseyrail is a nonsensical outlier. Apart from the termini and central Liverpool stations, all should be closed, and tap in/out contactless introduced.

 

[Peter0124]

What about concessionary fares? Why can't they be purchased digitally and have a photo of your card with it as proof.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What about concessionary fares?

No reason they can't be sold from TVMs.

It would be cheaper to give everyone who by virtue of a disability cannot use a TVM free travel than maintain staffed booking offices purely for them.

 

[Peter0124]

No reason they can't be sold from TVMs.

It would be cheaper to give everyone who by virtue of a disability cannot use a TVM free travel than maintain staffed booking offices purely for them.

Yeah, if they asked to scan the concessionary pass when confirming booking then TVMs could be useful with them.

 

[pitdiver]

I always use a ticket office as i need to purchase Priv Rate tickets. However I believe Cally Sleepers have overcome this by having to quote your PTAC or whatever over the phone. Then it is checked before boarding.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yeah, if they asked to scan the concessionary pass when confirming booking then TVMs could be useful with them.

No need to scan any pass any more than a Railcard or proof of being a child. It would be verified when the ticket was checked.

Other than priv, what kind of concession is presently not available via TVMs?

 

[pdeaves]

Ultimately it’s perfectly reasonable for unions to oppose job cuts and compulsory redundancies. In fact, it’s the reason they exist in the first place, so it’s hardly surprising they are opposed to these measures.

Sadly this is inevitable and has been a long time coming. Hopefully it can be dealt with by way of voluntary redundancies or redeployment.

Of course. The method of dealing with the opposition is what I think could 'make or break'. If someone threatens to make you redundant and you respond by not working, that only proves the point. Far better to make yourself indispensable to prove that the employer really needs to keep you.

Related thought: a real human can 'up sell' better than a TVM can. Maybe that's somewhere that effort could be put (if not already; opportunities may be limited).

 

[AlterEgo]

Having seen many tourists at a TfL Underground station who have limited English struggle to work out they need a Oyster card is quite embarrassing.

I don't think people in foreign countries feel embarrassed for me when I'm poking around on a ticket machine.

A number of the TfL staff aren't polite or patient with them either.

And how would that be fixed by having those rude staff in a ticket office?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think people in foreign countries feel embarrassed for me when I'm poking around on a ticket machine.

And it'd be better handled with a clear poster/leaflet aimed at explaining the system to tourists and in multiple languages than a conversation in broken English you don't quite understand, in any case.

And we seem to keep identifying these tourists who don't research before their trip, don't own a smartphone and have only cash* - who are those people? There are probably none at all who don't travel on package holidays where all that is sorted out for them. If you're a clued up traveller, you do your research. If you're not and don't wish to be, you usually go for a package trip.

* Russians and perhaps Ukrainian refugees excepted at present. The latter should be allowed free travel anyway. The former, well...

 

[AlterEgo]

They do on Merseyrail, where there are hardly any ATMs in any case.
No doubt the non-DfT TOCs will do their own thing.

Yes, Merseyrail, a paragon of virtue, efficiency, and good practice.