I am amazed of the UK Railway System and how massive the network is

[yorksrob]

Despite these amusing anecdotes, and of course stories such as the GM streetcar conspiracy, I think that within most urban areas in the US, public transportation operation, infrastructure and policy is streets ahead of most things we have in the UK, even allowing for the lower population densities.

I suppose it depends on what proportion of US urban centres have a metro system.

 

[lejog]

While rail usage in the UK is high compared with the US, its not high compared with car. According to the DfT, the share for different modes of transport for all trips is:

Car or Van 64%
Foot 22%
Bus 7%
Rail 3%
Bicycle 2%
Others 2%

However rail provides 9% of all journeys to work, so is an important enabler to the economy. Most of the UK's cities have major commuter networks, probably only true for New York in the States.

 

[Brystar35]

What the heck Railway travel is only 3% and yet it has a huge network??? I don't get it?

Also i noticed there is more drive for modernization and electrification of the British Railways i wish we had that level of investment here in the USA, but it will be only in certain corridors.

While Florida we are getting a new Railway line the Brightline it will only have four major stations in Florida Three in South Florida (Where i live) and one in central Florida in Orlando (Mouse land). not an huge extensive network to connect small towns and such but a good start.

Also one of my favorite EMU's in the UK is the British Rail Class 390 Pendilinos those are very sleek and fast trains that go 125 MPH and it tilts and i am amazed on the noise it makes that it goes really fast as it sounds like a WOAMM!!!! noise or something? by the way what is that noise when the train goes really fast you hear a sherik noise or a Woam noise? it sounds amazing.

 

[Clansman]

Are you suggesting a Pacer pyre party?

Precisely - Iranian Style

Burn baby burn!

...♫ Pacer Inferno ♫...

 

[yorksrob]

What the heck Railway travel is only 3% and yet it has a huge network??? I don't get it?

Lots and lots of road traffic unfortunately, resulting in lots of pollution and making it difficult to walk anywhere.

 

[Ploughman]

Today on another site this detail came through.
Does that mean that the total would make up under 3 %?

From the data here: http://orr.gov.uk/statistics/published-stats/station-usage-estimates the busiest stations outside London by annual passenger entrance / exits are:

1. Birmingham New Street -- 35,312,788
2. Glasgow Central -- 28,964,760
3. Leeds -- 28,847,648
4. Manchester Piccadilly -- 24,614,970
5. Edinburgh -- 21,106,540
6. Gatwick Airport -- 17,494,324
7. Brighton -- 17,170,740
8. Glasgow Queen Street -- 16,959,230
9. Reading -- 16,339,602
10. Liverpool Central -- 15,272,837

Birmingham New Street would be 8th on the overall list, behind Waterloo, Victoria, Liverpool Street, London Bridge, Charing Cross, Euston and Paddington.

 

[lejog]

Lots and lots of road traffic unfortunately, resulting in lots of pollution and making it difficult to walk anywhere.

Facilities for pedestrians are an absolute dream in the UK compared with the US. When I worked in New York, I rented a house in Long Island, there were plenty of trains from the nearby station. However, the sidewalk ended at the station car park and neighbours thought I was some sort of vagabond walking a mile along (and across) pathless highways if I didn't take the car.

 

[yorksrob]

Facilities for pedestrians are an absolute dream in the UK compared with the US. When I worked in New York, I rented a house in Long Island, there were plenty of trains from the nearby station. However, the sidewalk ended at the station car park and neighbours thought I was some sort of vagabond walking a mile along (and across) pathless highways if I didn't take the car.

Sounds like a right ball-ache !

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The thing to bear in mind is not just the population density, but the related fact that the British mainland is tiny compared to the US, and would fit several times over inside most American States. Travelling from Wick to Penzance seems like further than it is comparatively because you have the idea in your head that you're going right from one end to the other. Several of my friends stateside think nothing of driving 300+ miles to attend a concert then coming back straight after, whereas I might do that only once every few years here.

 

[AM9]

Despite these amusing anecdotes, and of course stories such as the GM streetcar conspiracy, I think that within lots of urban areas in the US, public transportation operation, infrastructure and policy is streets ahead of most things we have in the UK, even allowing for the lower population densities.

That's probably true for centres outside London, but only the NYC MTA's services are anywhere near as comprehensive as TfL's.

 

[Groningen]

There would be more steel wheels in England if there was not a certian Mr. Beeching in the 60's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beeching_cuts

 

[Sniffingmoose]

When I was in the USA in 2005, I cought an long Amtrack train from New York to Niagra Falls. (The Maple leaf) The journey took most of the day arriving 2 hours or so late. Niagra Falls station was at the end of a long siding which the train had to reverse into. The station buildings consisted of what looked like a garden shed. No platform, No taxi rank, no buses, no shops nothing. I expected more of a majour tourist town on route between Toronto and New York. I had to get a Taxi to the airport in order to hire a car to get around. The fare was cheap though and I like the romantic names Amatrack give their long distance trains.

 

[lejog]

Today on another site this detail came through.
Does that mean that the total would make up under 3 %?

Its going to take a 33% growth in rail figures (while all other modes remain the same) to get the figure to increase to 4%. If you want a higher figure try the % of passenger km travelled, walking not surprisingly isn't significant and rail's share increases to 10%. Still way behind the car at 83%.

 

[Up_Tilt_390]

Also one of my favorite EMU's in the UK is the British Rail Class 390 Pendilinos those are very sleek and fast trains that go 125 MPH and it tilts and i am amazed on the noise it makes that it goes really fast as it sounds like a WOAMM!!!! noise or something? by the way what is that noise when the train goes really fast you hear a sherik noise or a Woam noise? it sounds amazing.

Welcome to the party of Pendolino lovers

 

[randyrippley]

by the way what is that noise when the train goes really fast you hear a sherik noise or a Woam noise? it sounds amazing.

its usually a thunk thunk thunk screech due to the wheelflats.........

 

[rf_ioliver]

I want to say that i am amazed on how massive the UK Railway system is...

Welcome! And you should have seen the rail network before Beeching. There's a great atlas here showing the extent of the rail network:

http://www.geowiki.com/New_Adlestrop_Railway_Atlas.pdf

t.

Ian

 

[yorksrob]

This is a good one which shows where railways were in the landscape:

http://railmaponline.com/UKIEMap.php

 

[D1009]

There would be more steel wheels in England if there was not a certian Mr. Beeching in the 60's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beeching_cuts

Don't shoot the messenger, the politicians of the day appointed him and implemented his plan. I lay the blame at one Ernest Marples. Having said that the railways were unloved at the time, and promoting them was not a vote winner.

 

[GatwickDepress]

Although I do think the percentage of journeys by car is always going to be high - my mother-in-law is an accountant and thus uses her car on multiple journeys a day around Bucks and Northants, but anywhere further afield for work or leisure - like London, Portsmouth, or Birmingham - and it's the train every time.

I do love our network though. Despite being such a small country, it can take forever to cover! I heartily recommend a day in London or Glasgow; two of the greatest suburban railway systems in my humble opinion.

 

[Busaholic]

The USA, like GB, suffered decades of under-investment in railway infrastructure and, as various people have pointed out, being an exponentially bigger country it will/would take so much longer to make significant improvements, even if the will and the resources were there. The state of the track in some places in the '70s,80s and 90s was such that even Gerald Corbett might have noticed something wrong with it, and derailments were many even with permanent (low) speed restrictions on most remaining lines outside the favoured NE corridor.
Before we get too self-congratulatory, though, consider how long the GWR electrification would take if you were talking American distances, from one side of the country to the other!

 

[Hophead]

Before we get too self-congratulatory, though, consider how long the GWR electrification would take if you were talking American distances, from one side of the country to the other!

Alternatively, consider how long its taking, considering British distances

 

[RichmondCommu]

its usually a thunk thunk thunk screech due to the wheelflats.........

Traveled home on a Pendolino tonight, no problems with any wheel flats

 

[Brystar35]

I am talking about the wind noise on the Pendilino train

This is a video of what i am trying to say about this is from HST EMCL youtube channel but i want to show what i am talking about that Woaamm!!!! sound when the train is going at full speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqKY2kbpy1U

I find this sound amazing and the tilt on the Class 390 is super amazing, What is it that makes these sounds because we don't have this in Florida, where Railways constantly go around 125 mph, ours don't reach that speed at all.

 

[The Ham]

I am talking about the wind noise on the Pendilino train

This is a video of what i am trying to say about this is from HST EMCL youtube channel but i want to show what i am talking about that Woaamm!!!! sound when the train is going at full speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqKY2kbpy1U

I find this sound amazing and the tilt on the Class 390 is super amazing, What is it that makes these sounds because we don't have this in Florida, where Railways constantly go around 125 mph, ours don't reach that speed at all.

I assume that you are aware that there are plans for a new line called Highspeed 2 (HS2) here in the UK which will allow us to go quite a bit faster than 125nph.

 

[Brystar35]

Oh yes i am aware about it and i am for the project HS2 will be super amazing with alot of things going for it.

Anyways i am excited to see the British Railway system is growing with more projects to enhance it, expand, modernize, etc.

Also its a shame that the UK Railways lost so much with Dr Beeching and his Beeching Axe programme it sucks that cities and towns lost Railways that was vital to them.

The thing is that to me i don't get much exposure to trains here in Florida because we hardly get any use of them unless your going downtown Miami, the airport and such, but for communting it depends if your going to Downtown its best to use the Train or express buses but if your going to work in the Suburbs its best to take your own car.

 

[Ash Bridge]

It also seems HS1 on which you can travel on a 140mph class 395 from London to the Kent coast hasn't been mentioned yet, or better still 186mph on one of Eurostars earlier class 373 TGV type trains or the brand new class 374 Velaro's which are now being introduced, which allow rapid travel to other European cities such as Brussels, Paris, Lille etc.

 

[futureA]

While rail usage in the UK is high compared with the US, its not high compared with car. According to the DfT, the share for different modes of transport for all trips is:

Car or Van 64%
Foot 22%
Bus 7%
Rail 3%
Bicycle 2%
Others 2%

Those figures are pretty ridiculous since they are not comparing similar journey types. I wonder how many of those car journeys are under 2 miles?

 

[ac6000cw]

While rail usage in the UK is high compared with the US, its not high compared with car. According to the DfT, the share for different modes of transport for all trips is:

Car or Van 64%
Foot 22%
Bus 7%
Rail 3%
Bicycle 2%
Others 2%

However rail provides 9% of all journeys to work, so is an important enabler to the economy.

Most journeys are short distances where rail isn't a sensible option or buses aren't frequent enough/don't go where you want to go, so this sort of analysis is always going to be heavily biased towards transport modes that minimise the 'door-to-door' transit time. If a bus runs every 30 minutes, then on average a passenger will wait 15 minutes for the bus, so if it's less than a mile journey it's probably as quick to walk. Any sort of private wheeled transport would beat the average bus time easily. It's why for short to medium distances service frequency is more important than speed in reducing average total journey times.

Most of the UK's cities have major commuter networks, probably only true for New York in the States.

Chicago has an extensive commuter rail and transit system. Philadelphia, Boston, Washington DC, Baltimore, San Francisco/Bay Area, and LA have both as well (to varying degrees). Then there are Seattle, Portland, San Diego, Denver, Sacramento, Dallas, Miami, Orlando with at least some commuter and/or light rail (and there probably a few more I've forgotten).

As Mojo says, in some respects (particularly in integration between modes) some US cities do it better (or at least as well) as we do in the UK.

I think the current UK passenger rail system is the best it's ever been (in terms of frequency, speed and rolling-stock quality). Rail freight economics are always going to be difficult here due to the short distances, but even that is doing OK (albeit with the aid of some subsidy from the passenger business).

 

[Greenback]

I would agree that some US cities do a very good job of local public transportation. I was very impressed with Chicago, though LA is pretty dismal. Even in some smaller cities, the bus services are on a par with what we have here outside of London, and usually without the multiple operators and competition that seems so beloved in the UK.

The long distance rail services away from the north east are slow and sparse, but that is probably to be expected given the demographics of so much of the country.

 

[Phil.]

The USA, like GB, suffered decades of under-investment in railway infrastructure and, as various people have pointed out, being an exponentially bigger country it will/would take so much longer to make significant improvements, even if the will and the resources were there. The state of the track in some places in the '70s,80s and 90s was such that even Gerald Corbett might have noticed something wrong with it, and derailments were many even with permanent (low) speed restrictions on most remaining lines outside the favoured NE corridor.
Before we get too self-congratulatory, though, consider how long the GWR electrification would take if you were talking American distances, from one side of the country to the other!

And that's what killed the U.S. railways. Why spend a day and a half on a train from New York to Houston when you can go by air in a couple of hours.