I am being threatened with court over a Trainline ticket dispute.

[nlogax]

It should work yes.

Good to know. Thank you!

 

[Haywain]

you can still use Apple Pay to collect your ticket by tapping your device on the contactless reader on the TVM.

Unfortunately, I don't think all TVMs use contactless to read card details for the ToD process.

 

[Hadders]

If you paid using Apple Pay you can still use Apple Pay to collect your ticket by tapping your device on the contactless reader on the TVM. You can also use this method with a physical card to collect tickets.

Generally you can't do this. It works on LNER ticket machines (and possibly Northern and Chiltern but I've not checked this). It definitely doesn't work on ticket machines operated by GTR.

 

[whistler2018]

I used to work on the platforms on the ECML and people used to ask what to do if they didn’t have the card that booked the journey to collect the tickets (most often employees who’s business had bought their tickets and given them the reference only).

For ages I was stumped and used to send them into the Travel Centre until curiosity got the better of me. One day I took a passenger to the TVM and put my own credit card it. To my surprise is prompted me to put the collection code in, which the passenger did, and it presented them with their tickets. No idea if this works now but I’d advise anyone to try it if they’re struggling to collect their tickets without a card.

As an aside, I also see responses about Apple Pay card numbers being different to the physical card registered. This is due to their encryption but should still absolutely recognise the physical card due to how this encryption works.

 

[Adam Williams]

I used to work on the platforms on the ECML and people used to ask what to do if they didn’t have the card that booked the journey to collect the tickets (most often employees who’s business had bought their tickets and given them the reference only).

For ages I was stumped and used to send them into the Travel Centre until curiosity got the better of me. One day I took a passenger to the TVM and put my own credit card it. To my surprise is prompted me to put the collection code in, which the passenger did, and it presented them with their tickets. No idea if this works now but I’d advise anyone to try it if they’re struggling to collect their tickets without a card.

Definitely always worth trying this on the off-chance that the retailer has set the booking "Fulfilment Authentication Indicator" flag to allow the tickets to be picked up with any card, but there's no guarantee this will be the case - so whether this will work will vary in practice based on the retailer and sometimes also the payment method / other rules.

The iKB does say staff are supposed to check photographic ID if they do issue tickets to customers in this state, rather than just providing a card for them to do it with, but in practice given they could just use a random card themselves (or ask a member of the public to help them out) I don't see that this serves much purpose!

 

[CyrusWuff]

The iKB does say staff are supposed to check photographic ID if they do issue tickets to customers in this state, rather than just providing a card for them to do it with, but in practice given they could just use a random card themselves (or ask a member of the public to help them out) I don't see that this serves much purpose!

In addition, tickets booked through Trainline for ToD fulfillment generally have the customer name set to "I CUSTOMER" or "A CUSTOMER" - presumably depending on whether they've been bought through the website or app - due to their backend still not having a live connection to the ToD database.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Good result! Sounds like an outbreak of common sense, which happens from time to time -- even on the railway.

Although it is of course risky being put before a Magistrate, do responders to the original query believe that the gateline staff could legally be held to be an 'authorised officer of the railway' able to permit the OP to join the train at the origin in these circumstances and therefore that this could be run as a defence to a RoRA charge? After all, the gateline staff are there largely to protect revenue by checking tickets.

I suppose the other learning here is be very wary of Apple Pay: the system based on physically having a Credit/Debit card and using it in the TVMs as required is much simpler (= less risky) in practice...

 

[Graham H]

Definitely always worth trying this on the off-chance that the retailer has set the booking "Fulfilment Authentication Indicator" flag to allow the tickets to be picked up with any card, but there's no guarantee this will be the case - so whether this will work will vary in practice based on the retailer and sometimes also the payment method / other rules.

The iKB does say staff are supposed to check photographic ID if they do issue tickets to customers in this state, rather than just providing a card for them to do it with, but in practice given they could just use a random card themselves (or ask a member of the public to help them out) I don't see that this serves much purpose!

This works for me at my local station (southern). The 'use card that you purchased with" (or similar words !) message comes up initially but any card will work. Not checked if its TOC purchase dependent but definitely OK buying tickets on Southerns site even if the journey goes beyond the TOC boundary.

 

[Haywain]

definitely OK buying tickets on Southerns site even if the journey goes beyond the TOC boundary.

The journey will have no effect on the settings for ticket collection.

 

[skyhigh]

This works for me at my local station (southern). The 'use card that you purchased with" (or similar words !) message comes up initially but any card will work. Not checked if its TOC purchase dependent but definitely OK buying tickets on Southerns site even if the journey goes beyond the TOC boundary.

This is very much customer and retailer dependent. The first few times you use a site it may be set to same card collection (which will apply at any brand of TVM) but then it may change to any card after a few transactions as the fraud risk is reduced. Or it might stay as same card. So it's not correct to say 'Southern always lets you collect with any card' as a blanket statement.

 

[Watershed]

Although it is of course risky being put before a Magistrate, do responders to the original query believe that the gateline staff could legally be held to be an 'authorised officer of the railway' able to permit the OP to join the train at the origin in these circumstances and therefore that this could be run as a defence to a RoRA charge? After all, the gateline staff are there largely to protect revenue by checking tickets.

The Byelaws define "authorised person" as:

a person acting in the course of his duties who is an employee or agent of an Operator

So that covers just about any member of staff. Certainly, if they're authorised to check tickets they're authorised to permit people to travel.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Certainly, if they're authorised to check tickets they're authorised to permit people to travel.

Is there any sort of 'proof of authorisation' on the railway? I've always found this to be very problematic if there's no evidence that the passenger was actually authorised to travel.

I've only ever needed to ask once, when I was 17 and suffering from a very visible monstrous hangover and no money. I asked the Scotrail guard if he could help, explained the situation (lost my tickets, feeling very unwell, been travelling all day and just want my bed after a nightmare day of delays on the railway), and he told me to get on and get some sleep. He actually saw me being sick on the platform at one point, which probably convinced him that my 'I'm very sick' story was genuine!

 

[Watershed]

Is there any sort of 'proof of authorisation' on the railway? I've always found this to be very problematic if there's no evidence that the passenger was actually authorised to travel.

I've only ever needed to ask once, when I was 17 and suffering from a very visible monstrous hangover and no money. I asked the Scotrail guard if he could help, explained the situation (lost my tickets, feeling very unwell, been travelling all day and just want my bed after a nightmare day of delays on the railway), and he told me to get on and get some sleep. He actually saw me being sick on the platform at one point, which probably convinced him that my 'I'm very sick' story was genuine!

If you already have a ticket, there's the facility to add endorsements (on the back of the ticket if it's a paper one, or digitally if it's an e-ticket).

If you don't hold any ticket at all, then it is more problematic as you say, because it's unlikely you would be e.g. given a piece of paper with authorisation.

 

[357]

If you already have a ticket, there's the facility to add endorsements (on the back of the ticket if it's a paper one, or digitally if it's an e-ticket).

If you don't hold any ticket at all, then it is more problematic as you say, because it's unlikely you would be e.g. given a piece of paper with authorisation.

When I was stations we used to phone control and get them to log it, our put it in our own station log book

However, there were always staff who never bothered leading to problems... Especially when another station calls to check, and a member of agency staff fears getting into trouble so won't admit it, resulting in the passenger getting a penalty fare

 

[Mawkie]

Is there any sort of 'proof of authorisation' on the railway? I've always found this to be very problematic if there's no evidence that the passenger was actually authorised to travel.

On London Underground I would invite them to take a photo of my name badge on their phone, and call/radio the destination station to request the passenger be let out.

(Of course, LU have an unnecessarily complex procedure for allowing a passenger to travel without a ticket, but it is rarely used.)