I drove through a level crossing

[burneraccount0]

I did something extremely stupid today and honestly feel like such a div for doing it. It was late, around 11pm, and I obviously wasn't thinking straight because never would I consider doing this if I was. As I was approaching a level crossing the lights turned amber, but instead of stopping which I should have done, I decided to carry on going. I passed the white line as the lights were still amber but they had gone red as I finished crossing the initial white line as I could see the opposite end of the street light up red as it was dark. The barriers went down after I had left the level crossing but the lights were 100% red as I was on the crossing itself. Again, I know I'm an idiot for doing it and there's no real excuse I can use, I should have done better and stopped. There was a gatso styled camera facing me. I have video footage from my dashcam, it's not the clearest but it gives a clearer picture of what happened. Should I be expecting points and a fine?

 

[LCC106]

Can’t comment for sure on the above but my Father did this once and had to go on an awareness course. (Maybe this reduced the fine?) He said it was a good reminder of some things he’d forgotten.

 

[OscarH]

Given your wheels crossed the line while it was still amber, my understanding is the camera wouldn't have been active yet - it's only an offence if they were red when you started crossing

Someone may correct me though

 

[burneraccount0]

Can’t comment for sure on the above but my Father did this once and had to go on an awareness course. (Maybe this reduced the fine?) He said it was a good reminder of some things he’d forgotten.

Honestly the fine doesn't bother me, It's more the points. If they offer me an awareness course for a clean license with no points, I'd take it with gratitude. I'm still a fairly new driver (3 years) so I'm still learning. A daft mistake I hope to never do again.

Given your wheels crossed the line while it was still amber, my understanding is the camera wouldn't have been active yet - it's only an offence if they were red when you started crossing

Someone may correct me though

I appreciate your response. That is my understanding too, but I wasn't completely sure if level crossing cameras worked the same way as traffic light cameras. Either way, offence or not, I won't be pulling that manoeuvre again.

 

[WAB]

I did something extremely stupid today and honestly feel like such a div for doing it. It was late, around 11pm, and I obviously wasn't thinking straight because never would I consider doing this if I was. As I was approaching a level crossing the lights turned amber, but instead of stopping which I should have done, I decided to carry on going. I passed the white line as the lights were still amber but they had gone red as I finished crossing the initial white line as I could see the opposite end of the street light up red as it was dark. The barriers went down after I had left the level crossing but the lights were 100% red as I was on the crossing itself. Again, I know I'm an idiot for doing it and there's no real excuse I can use, I should have done better and stopped. There was a gatso styled camera facing me. I have video footage from my dashcam, it's not the clearest but it gives a clearer picture of what happened. Should I be expecting points and a fine?

To my eyes, you were past the stop line before the red part of the sequence started and I suspect the cameras will allow some leeway anyway. It's my understanding that it's the point at which you pass the stop line, not clear the crossing.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Given your wheels crossed the line while it was still amber, my understanding is the camera wouldn't have been active yet - it's only an offence if they were red when you started crossing

Someone may correct me though

The principle is the same as with traffic lights.

Amber = Stop unless it is unsafe to do so or you've already crossed the stop line when it comes on.

If caught, it's likely to be dealt with by means of a fixed penalty notice, and 3 points on your licence with a TS10 (Failing to comply with traffic light signals) endorsement.

 

[GusB]

I did something extremely stupid today and honestly feel like such a div for doing it. It was late, around 11pm, and I obviously wasn't thinking straight because never would I consider doing this if I was. As I was approaching a level crossing the lights turned amber, but instead of stopping which I should have done, I decided to carry on going. I passed the white line as the lights were still amber but they had gone red as I finished crossing the initial white line as I could see the opposite end of the street light up red as it was dark. The barriers went down after I had left the level crossing but the lights were 100% red as I was on the crossing itself. Again, I know I'm an idiot for doing it and there's no real excuse I can use, I should have done better and stopped. There was a gatso styled camera facing me. I have video footage from my dashcam, it's not the clearest but it gives a clearer picture of what happened. Should I be expecting points and a fine?

The light was amber as you were crossing. Whether or not it was safe to stop while the amber light was showing is down to your own judgement - was there traffic behind you that could run into the back of your car (unsafe) or was there actually enough time to safely bring your car to a halt in time? From the video, we can only see what was in front of you.

You wouldn't be posting here unless you'd had a fright and I'm reluctant to say any more. I think you know the potential consequences had the light been red when you were crossing the line. Learn from that fright - I certainly learned from the few I had when I was a novice driver and 30 years on I still get the occasional fright, but you learn how to better deal with situations with more experience.

 

[Vespa]

Well you learn something new every day, I didn't know there was even a gatso on level crossings, it does make sense considering the numbers of close calls film clips showing on YouTube etc.

I do stop anyway and still check left and right before crossing after barriers have gone up just to be sure.

To help to improve it I would have had a red light camera warning light put before the barriers to reinforce the message.

 

[66701GBRF]

Well you learn something new every day, I didn't know there was even a gatso on level crossings, it does make sense considering the numbers of close calls film clips showing on YouTube etc.

I do stop anyway and still check left and right before crossing after barriers have gone up just to be sure.

To help to improve it I would have had a red light camera warning light put before the barriers to reinforce the message.

Not every crossing is fitted with a red light camera, though is becoming more common. Don’t see the need for a warning sign to be honest, you cross the red light you take your chances.

 

[burneraccount0]

To my eyes, you were past the stop line before the red part of the sequence started and I suspect the cameras will allow some leeway anyway. It's my understanding that it's the point at which you pass the stop line, not clear the crossing.

This is what I assumed but thought I'd ask here as many of you would know better than me. Thank you for your response.

The light was amber as you were crossing. Whether or not it was safe to stop while the amber light was showing is down to your own judgement - was there traffic behind you that could run into the back of your car (unsafe) or was there actually enough time to safely bring your car to a halt in time? From the video, we can only see what was in front of you.

You wouldn't be posting here unless you'd had a fright and I'm reluctant to say any more. I think you know the potential consequences had the light been red when you were crossing the line. Learn from that fright - I certainly learned from the few I had when I was a novice driver and 30 years on I still get the occasional fright, but you learn how to better deal with situations with more experience.

There was no traffic behind me. I made a stupid decision to carry on going when I had every reason to stop. And you're correct I've had a fright. I'm quite a defensive driver and make sure not to speed or run through amber's. This was a first which startled me, so I thought I'd ask those who know better if what I did was enough to get me points. What ever the outcome is I've learned my lesson.

 

[DelW]

Wouldn't there have been a visible flash if the camera had been triggered? For a driver to be prosecuted, I'd have expected there would need to be photo evidence to show both the vehicle and (one of) the red lights. At night I would have expected this to need a flash unless there's some form of image enhancement capable of showing the number plate.

 

[Royston Vasey]

I don’t think there’s a lot wrong with that to be honest. If you were at the speed limit or below (I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt on that) you’d have had to brake very hard to stop at the line which is not necessarily better than continuing through the amber. Amber does not necessarily mean stop.

 

[Ken X]

Firstly, fair play for sticking your hand up. We've all had those moments when we think "that could have gone better". The trick is to add the event to the experience file and learn from it.

As a company car driver I have to spend an hour with an Advanced Driving Instructor every few years. Even after forty plus years of driving I still look forward to the meeting. They look at my driving, comment and discuss techniques and styles, (usually involving a bacon roll somewhere). It keeps me abreast of changing laws, opinions and generally keeps me up to date.

If you can afford it, an hour or more with an Advanced Driving Instructor or even a full course I would thoroughly recommend it.

 

[Vespa]

Not every crossing is fitted with a red light camera, though is becoming more common. Don’t see the need for a warning sign to be honest, you cross the red light you take your chances.

The signs are and should be a safety reminder not a Darwin award badge or a cash cow.

 

[LCC106]

Network Rail’s “Level Crossings for Drivers” may be a useful read - link below. You can also Google penalty for drivers going through a level crossing or similar to dig a little deeper. https://www.networkrail.co.uk/commu...-crossing-safety/level-crossings-for-drivers/

 

[Lockwood]

I don’t think there’s a lot wrong with that to be honest. If you were at the speed limit or below (I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt on that) you’d have had to brake very hard to stop at the line which is not necessarily better than continuing through the amber. Amber does not necessarily mean stop.

Devil's advocate time? From a defensive driving point of view, you should be anticipating that lights will change. Once passing the level crossing sign, you should be easing off to keep your options open. Once within the point of no return you can commit.

On a more practical note, even with my defensive driving I have passed quite late ambers on normal traffic lights because it "suddenly" changed.


This is of course written with benefit of hindsight, not knowing the geography, not being there at the time, etc.


I can see you are wanting to learn and develop as a driver - I would second the other posts about the advanced training/observations as a good way to do that

 

[rf_ioliver]

If there was no camera watching then you're probably OK, *BUT* further to what @CyrusWuff pointed out, ask yourself this

"Did I have enough time to stop safely?"

I think you've answered that question for yourself...how much time did you save in the end? And, for what cost?

If you ever do end up on an awareness course, you will be asked this and they will go through consequences - yes you might have saved time, but what if there was a pedestrian on the other side of the crossing, or a car coming out of a drive way (did you have a clear sight after the crossing), what speed were you going? They can be pretty brutal about this - and with good reason.

 

[fishwomp]

Not every crossing is fitted with a red light camera, though is becoming more common. Don’t see the need for a warning sign to be honest, you cross the red light you take your chances.

Don't know how common they are, but they're very cheap to install these days..

Beaver Hill crossing, between Lamphey and Manorbier, is a crossing where the driver stops (yes, stops) and blows his horn, and then proceeds at ~5-10mph - there are no lights or other electrically supplied devices. From the second photo, you'll see it looks like a consumer-grade home-security solar-powered, SIM-card fitted, camera. Wonder if they have a few SIMs to try to see which network actually has signals in rural areas!

 

[zwk500]

The signs are and should be a safety reminder not a Darwin award badge or a cash cow.

Are there not enough safety reminders already at Level Crossings? If you ignore the big barriers, flashing lights, warning signs, and general aura of railwayness then a further sign warning of a red light camera is unlikely to be noticed. And if somebody is the kind of driver who does notice all that and still drives through on red, they'll jeep doing it until they actually do get prosecuted because they believe it'll never happen to them.
Speed cameras have warnings and yet people repeatedly get caught by them.

 

[66701GBRF]

The signs are and should be a safety reminder not a Darwin award badge or a cash cow.

So because there might not be a camera sign you think the cameras are cash cows? I don't know how much revenue they produce but I imagine as the vast majority of drivers don't run the reds it probably isn't a huge amount. If someone needs yet another sign at a level crossing then perhaps they shouldn't be driving, if they do get caught then perhaps that will focus their driving behavior in other areas a bit more.
(Note, none of this is directed at the OP)

 

[Vespa]

So because there might not be a camera sign you think the cameras are cash cows? I don't know how much revenue they produce but I imagine as the vast majority of drivers don't run the reds it probably isn't a huge amount. If someone needs yet another sign at a level crossing then perhaps they shouldn't be driving, if they do get caught then perhaps that will focus their driving behavior in other areas a bit more.
(Note, none of this is directed at the OP)

I do think they are cash cows why else would Wales introduce 20 mph zones.

As to my original point, instead of attacking me, address the point I'm making.

Unfortunate people do need to be told, signs do need to be put up, warning given as even the OP was caught out no matter how experienced you are, you yourself will get caught out one day and collect a fine or worse.

I liked the American system of amber flashing lights on top of traffic lights to warn that the lights are about to change, there is no "suddenly" change of lights as you get ample anticipation, same for level crossings in my opinion before the crosding lights are activated a "pre activation" flashing would reduce the "suddenly" or the "shock".

We're talking human psychology here.

 

[LAX54]

I do think they are cash cows why else would Wales introduce 20 mph zones.

As to my original point, instead of attacking me, address the point I'm making.

Unfortunate people do need to be told, signs do need to be put up, warning given as even the OP was caught out no matter how experienced you are, you yourself will get caught out one day and collect a fine or worse.

I liked the American system of amber flashing lights on top of traffic lights to warn that the lights are about to change, there is no "suddenly" change of lights as you get ample anticipation, same for level crossings in my opinion before the crosding lights are activated a "pre activation" flashing would reduce the "suddenly" or the "shock".

We're talking human psychology here.

Then the pre-activation lights would startle you...... so you'd need a pre activation light to warn of the pre-activation light ! LOL
The video looks like CCTV, so the CCTV cameras will be running from when the 'picture' button is pressed in the box, pretty sure if it has GATSO type cameras as well, they will be purely red light activation, the crossing depicted looks like its in a 30 area too

 

[66701GBRF]

No one is "attacking" you, also no one mentioned Wales and their 20mph roads as that has no relevance at all to any of this. Yes I may well get caught out at some point, but not because of a lack of a camera sign but by doing something I probably shouldn't. I don't need a speed camera sign to tell me not to go through red lights or exceed the speed limit...its basic stuff. If I do and get caught then that is on me. You must realise that the Police can catch you speeding any where, either by van, patrols or their own static speed gun "traps", do you suggest a sign every 100m suggesting that?

As zwk500 points out, if someone ignores big red barriers and lights and the advanced signage then why would you expect them to take notice of a camera sign?

 

[DDB]

I do think they are cash cows why else would Wales introduce 20 mph zones.

To reduce deaths.

 

[zwk500]

I do think they are cash cows why else would Wales introduce 20 mph zones.

I'm fairly sure that Network Rail puts the LX cameras up, but the fines go to the courts, not NR. Wales introduced a blanked 20mph limit because it's demonstrably safer for pedestrians. Simple physics - momentum being the mass times velocity squared - says that speed is a major factor in the severity of an injury during contact.

Unfortunate people do need to be told, signs do need to be put up, warning given as even the OP was caught out no matter how experienced you are, you yourself will get caught out one day and collect a fine or worse.

Absolutely, which is why people are given fines because the danger is the level crossing, and everybody is better off for being caught out by a camera and hopefully it will remind them to be careful so they are not caught unawares by a train. A £100 fine and 3 pts, painful as that might be, will be insignificant compared to the damage of being hit by a train.

I liked the American system of amber flashing lights on top of traffic lights to warn that the lights are about to change, there is no "suddenly" change of lights as you get ample anticipation, same for level crossings in my opinion before the crosding lights are activated a "pre activation" flashing would reduce the "suddenly" or the "shock".

Perhaps warning could be given by a big yellow light and siren before the lights turn red?

 

[DDB]

I'm fairly sure that Network Rail puts the LX cameras up, but the fines go to the courts, not NR. Wales introduced a blanked 20mph limit because it's demonstrably safer for pedestrians. Simple physics - momentum being the mass times velocity squared - says that speed is a major factor in the severity of an injury during contact.

Absolutely, which is why people are given fines because the danger is the level crossing, and everybody is better off for being caught out by a camera and hopefully it will remind them to be careful so they are not caught unawares by a train. A £100 fine and 3 pts, painful as that might be, will be insignificant compared to the damage of being hit by a train.

Perhaps warning could be given by a big yellow light and siren before the lights turn red?

To be pedantic you mean kinetic energy rather than momentum but your point very much still stands. The energy in a collision is proportional to the square of the speed.

 

[zwk500]

To be pedantic you mean kinetic energy rather than momentum but your point very much still stands. The energy in a collision is proportional to the square of the speed.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[burneraccount0]

Well you learn something new every day, I didn't know there was even a gatso on level crossings, it does make sense considering the numbers of close calls film clips showing on YouTube etc.

I do stop anyway and still check left and right before crossing after barriers have gone up just to be sure.

To help to improve it I would have had a red light camera warning light put before the barriers to reinforce the message.

Wouldn't there have been a visible flash if the camera had been triggered? For a driver to be prosecuted, I'd have expected there would need to be photo evidence to show both the vehicle and (one of) the red lights. At night I would have expected this to need a flash unless there's some form of image enhancement capable of showing the number plate.

The camera was facing me on my side of the road so I assume they'd use infrared instead of flashing. I'll add a screenshot so you know what I mean. The green circle is the camera, the purple arrow is my direction of travel

 

[Macwomble]

Amber means STOP....if you can do so safely. if there was another car on your rear bumper you can argue that had you stopped you may have got "rear ended".

 

[Howardh]

A large number of level crossings are covered by cameras, but not necessarily those that will "flash" red light jumpers (ie. GATSO). I wonder if footage from ordinary CCTV can be used to prosecute those going through on red, obviously there's no automatic capture but should the driver be hit by a train I would imagine so?

As for the OP I've never known a camera flash as you pass on yellow for the reasons outlined above, and my undertanding is if it changes from yellow to red as you cross then that wouldn't flash either (ie a long HGV travelling slowly). So for a level crossing, in that instance, I hope there is considerable time before changing to red and the train crossing!