I gave up my seat for a crying child…

[ChewChewTrain]

Non-stop train from Reading to Paddington. Got a seat near one end of the carriage, but several didn’t and had to stand. This included a mother and her daughter of maybe five.

The girl repeatedly and sadly asked mummy why she had to stand, and eventually began crying. Not obnoxiously or brattishly; just quietly and continually, despite the mother’s best comforting efforts.

Now, I know this issue has come up before, and I’m firmly in the camp that adults have no moral obligation to give up their seats for children, and it probably teaches them a valuable lesson if they have to stand.

But the crying just cut through me like a knife. After a few minutes, I could stand it no longer, and told her grateful and relieved mother that she could have my seat.

I felt a strange mixture of “done a good deed” and “gone against my principles”. Certainly, if the girl had been a self-entitled brat, and/or the mother had glared at seated passengers or made pointed remarks that suggested they were doing something wrong, I’d have jolly well stayed put. But that wasn’t the case, so I did what I did, and d’you know? I think I’d probably do it again.

Did I selfishly contribute to the spoiling of this child just because I couldn’t listen to the crying? Or was it simply a nice thing to do and I shouldn’t overthink it? What, dear reader, would you have done? I look forward to a spirited discussion…

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Crying because she had to stand! If the kid have had been mine I’d have told her not to be such a brat, and then if someone like you had kindly offered their seat I’d have thanked you warmly for the kind offer but turned it down and made her stand. That’s so brattish.

Personally I’m surprised that the mother actually allowed you to give the seat up for her.

 

[New York Giant]

I'm okay with your decision my friend.

I tell myself I would never hold a door open for a mum pushing a pram while on her mobile phone. Cometh the hour though, I think my manners would kick in, even though by rights they should end the call thus freeing up the hand to push the door open themselves.

Off on a tangent...

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

No, I would not have given up my seat.

As for the girl, she can quite simply wait until she's a bit older and is paying £600 a month for a season ticket into London - only then will crying and/or huffing and puffing and/or loudly tutting (list not exhaustive) be accepted as a valid reaction to not getting a seat.

 

[vikingdriver]

See now as someone who's partner had severe depression for years after childbirth, which you would not realise by looking at her, your kind act could have made the difference between a good day and quite honestly, a terrifying day. So yeah, I salute you. No-one knows what's going on behind the scenes in anyone else's life so it's amazing to see kind people are out there.

 

[zwk500]

Did I selfishly contribute to the spoiling of this child just because I couldn’t listen to the crying? Or was it simply a nice thing to do and I shouldn’t overthink it? What, dear reader, would you have done? I look forward to a spirited discussion…

the young child was simply upset, not trying to get her own way. You say the mother fully expected to stand and was placing no obligation on anybody to move. Therefore it was an entirely conscious decision to be kind to a 5 year old who may well just be having a bad day. Nothing about spoiling her, instead you showed her that there are kind hearted people in the world who will do a good turn for a stranger.
A good deed done, and next time you're in that situation there's no obligation for you to act the same way if you feel you'd.rather keep the seat.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Non-stop train from Reading to Paddington. Got a seat near one end of the carriage, but several didn’t and had to stand. This included a mother and her daughter of maybe five.

The girl repeatedly and sadly asked mummy why she had to stand, and eventually began crying. Not obnoxiously or brattishly; just quietly and continually, despite the mother’s best comforting efforts.

Now, I know this issue has come up before, and I’m firmly in the camp that adults have no moral obligation to give up their seats for children, and it probably teaches them a valuable lesson if they have to stand.

But the crying just cut through me like a knife. After a few minutes, I could stand it no longer, and told her grateful and relieved mother that she could have my seat.

I felt a strange mixture of “done a good deed” and “gone against my principles”. Certainly, if the girl had been a self-entitled brat, and/or the mother had glared at seated passengers or made pointed remarks that suggested they were doing something wrong, I’d have jolly well stayed put. But that wasn’t the case, so I did what I did, and d’you know? I think I’d probably do it again.

Did I selfishly contribute to the spoiling of this child just because I couldn’t listen to the crying? Or was it simply a nice thing to do and I shouldn’t overthink it? What, dear reader, would you have done? I look forward to a spirited discussion…

I don’t think that anywhere other than the internet would this be met with an ounce of controversy. Fair play.

 

[Andy Pacer]

It's up to you what you do, I think the worst outcome there would've been giving up your seat and not getting thanked for it.

 

[bramling]

Non-stop train from Reading to Paddington. Got a seat near one end of the carriage, but several didn’t and had to stand. This included a mother and her daughter of maybe five.

The girl repeatedly and sadly asked mummy why she had to stand, and eventually began crying. Not obnoxiously or brattishly; just quietly and continually, despite the mother’s best comforting efforts.

Now, I know this issue has come up before, and I’m firmly in the camp that adults have no moral obligation to give up their seats for children, and it probably teaches them a valuable lesson if they have to stand.

But the crying just cut through me like a knife. After a few minutes, I could stand it no longer, and told her grateful and relieved mother that she could have my seat.

I felt a strange mixture of “done a good deed” and “gone against my principles”. Certainly, if the girl had been a self-entitled brat, and/or the mother had glared at seated passengers or made pointed remarks that suggested they were doing something wrong, I’d have jolly well stayed put. But that wasn’t the case, so I did what I did, and d’you know? I think I’d probably do it again.

Did I selfishly contribute to the spoiling of this child just because I couldn’t listen to the crying? Or was it simply a nice thing to do and I shouldn’t overthink it? What, dear reader, would you have done? I look forward to a spirited discussion…

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer, except whatever you felt was best at the time. However, personally, I wouldn't have given up the seat.

 

[Bantamzen]

Non-stop train from Reading to Paddington. Got a seat near one end of the carriage, but several didn’t and had to stand. This included a mother and her daughter of maybe five.

The girl repeatedly and sadly asked mummy why she had to stand, and eventually began crying. Not obnoxiously or brattishly; just quietly and continually, despite the mother’s best comforting efforts.

Now, I know this issue has come up before, and I’m firmly in the camp that adults have no moral obligation to give up their seats for children, and it probably teaches them a valuable lesson if they have to stand.

But the crying just cut through me like a knife. After a few minutes, I could stand it no longer, and told her grateful and relieved mother that she could have my seat.

I felt a strange mixture of “done a good deed” and “gone against my principles”. Certainly, if the girl had been a self-entitled brat, and/or the mother had glared at seated passengers or made pointed remarks that suggested they were doing something wrong, I’d have jolly well stayed put. But that wasn’t the case, so I did what I did, and d’you know? I think I’d probably do it again.

Did I selfishly contribute to the spoiling of this child just because I couldn’t listen to the crying? Or was it simply a nice thing to do and I shouldn’t overthink it? What, dear reader, would you have done? I look forward to a spirited discussion…

You did a good thing. Young kids often get easily upset at the simplest things. You certainly have not spoiled the young lass, you did a nice nice. Good on you.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

Crying because she had to stand! If the kid have had been mine I’d have told her not to be such a brat, and then if someone like you had kindly offered their seat I’d have thanked you warmly for the kind offer but turned it down and made her stand. That’s so brattish.

Personally I’m surprised that the mother actually allowed you to give the seat up for her.

Wow, it’s obvious you don’t have kids. Treating a crying/whimpering child like that would result in longer and louder crying, which would more distressing for everyone in the coach.

The op literally said she wasn’t being brattish. Five is too young to understand the intricacies of why trains have more people than seats, and on Peppa Pig, everyone on the train always gets a seat.

Good on you @ChewChewTrain, children deserve kindness too.

 

[Ivor]

Good on you @ChewChewTrain, children deserve kindness too.

Yep got to agree.

You didn’t feel under pressure to give up your seat OP but felt it was the correct thing to do & that’s the main thing

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Wow, it’s obvious you don’t have kids.

You don't know that?
Maybe calling her behaviour brattish is a little harsh, but crying "constantly and continuously" because there were no seats is not really something that should be encouraged. I'd be more for encouraging my kid to learn that sometimes you do have to stand.

 

[Western Lord]

From many peoples's comments on modern rolling stock, the child might have continued crying because the seat was too uncomfortable.

 

[RPI]

You don't know that?
Maybe calling her behaviour brattish is a little harsh, but crying "constantly and continuously" because there were no seats is not really something that should be encouraged. I'd be more for encouraging my kid to learn that sometimes you do have to stand.

Or maybe a young child, surrounded by standing adults twice their size felt upset or scared.

There's no right or wrong answer, the OP gave up their seat for someone else, their choice and it was a nice thing to do.

From many peoples's comments on modern rolling stock, the child might have continued crying because the seat was too uncomfortable.

I doubt it, my kids will happily sit in a puddle full of part melted snowy slush or a park bench

 

[AlterEgo]

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer, except whatever you felt was best at the time. However, personally, I wouldn't have given up the seat.

Quite so. I don’t think I would have given mine up either. Children mustn’t be incentivised to cause a commotion and get their own way. Crying would have made me double down on not giving up my seat to be honest.

 

[ar10642]

Non-stop train from Reading to Paddington. Got a seat near one end of the carriage, but several didn’t and had to stand. This included a mother and her daughter of maybe five.

The girl repeatedly and sadly asked mummy why she had to stand, and eventually began crying. Not obnoxiously or brattishly; just quietly and continually, despite the mother’s best comforting efforts.

Now, I know this issue has come up before, and I’m firmly in the camp that adults have no moral obligation to give up their seats for children, and it probably teaches them a valuable lesson if they have to stand.

But the crying just cut through me like a knife. After a few minutes, I could stand it no longer, and told her grateful and relieved mother that she could have my seat.

I felt a strange mixture of “done a good deed” and “gone against my principles”. Certainly, if the girl had been a self-entitled brat, and/or the mother had glared at seated passengers or made pointed remarks that suggested they were doing something wrong, I’d have jolly well stayed put. But that wasn’t the case, so I did what I did, and d’you know? I think I’d probably do it again.

Did I selfishly contribute to the spoiling of this child just because I couldn’t listen to the crying? Or was it simply a nice thing to do and I shouldn’t overthink it? What, dear reader, would you have done? I look forward to a spirited discussion…

You did the right thing, sometimes children act like children and it's OK to be nice to them. To everyone carrying on about "brats" etc. I'd suggest this says something not very good about you, or at the very least you don't have much experience in what it's actually like looking after children.

 

[sportzbar]

From many peoples's comments on modern rolling stock, the child might have continued crying because the seat was too uncomfortable.

This wins "comment of the day"

 

[ComUtoR]

But the crying just cut through me like a knife.

Which is what Mother Nature designed crying to do. It's a sign of distress and triggers a response in other humans. It's a sound that is very hard to ignore.

Did I contribute to the spoiling of this child just because I couldn’t listen to the crying?

Yes and no. It can certainly become "learned behaviour" Children can, and will, associate their crying with the response they get. Again, that's by design. It's very hard as a parent to balance your response when the kids are crying. From what you describe, the Mother was already doing that. If the child then gets praised etc from their crying, they will most likely do it again. However, if you teach the child that it was because you were being nice, then it's an opportunity for them to learn good behaviours.

Or was it simply a nice thing to do and I shouldn’t overthink it?

Never underestimate the power of kindness. Totally a good deed.

 

[tspaul26]

After a few minutes, I could stand it no longer, and told her grateful and relieved mother that she could have my seat.

It's up to you what you do, I think the worst outcome there would've been giving up your seat and not getting thanked for it.

I would be interested to know whether the child thanked you, either spontaneously or at its mother’s prompting.

If not, my view is that this episode may not necessarily have been the best longer term lesson in public behaviour and manners for the child. It is old enough to know its ‘pleases and thank yous’ and that it should show gratitude to others when gifts are given.

 

[Bald Rick]

You did the right thing.

The young girl may well have had some form of anxiety / mental health condition / been a little poorly / whatever. Given that you said the mum was grateful and relieved, it may well be the case that she, too, was struggling, and not only with the child.

I would always give up my seat to someone who appeared to need it more than me, regardless of age, sex, whatever. By extension, if I’m already standing I will often ask those seated if they might be able to give up their seat in such cases. The response to this question is one of my litmus tests for ‘are they a decent person’.

I’m of the opinion that 95% of people who appear to be in need usually are.

 

[87electric]

This wins "comment of the day"

Of the month for me.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

I think you did a lovely thing. It's so easy to want to stay put but its clear you felt bad at staying sat down so well done you !

 

[Fleetmaster]

Unless you don't have regular contact with kids, even as a non-parent it becomes pretty easy to tell the difference between spoilt brat behaviour and genuine distress. This holds true for pretty much any child In any socio-economic group, barring obviously abusive environments.

In addition, you also kind of just know that a happy, healthy five year old that isn't chuntering away about trains or scenery, is very unlikely to request a seat on a train without good reason. Even at five, social conditioning means that being spoilt in of itself, wouldn't be sufficient to explain a persistent and yet undramatic attempt to attain such a small and unrewarding thing like a seat. It wasn't a chocolate covered seat. The seat was not covetted or occupied by a sibling. It was just a seat.

You do need more than incidental exposure to learn this stuff though, ether living with, or ideally, caring for a child, to see it. Doesn't have to be much. I learned a lot simply by offering relatives the odd school run or bike ride, and other assorted trips that take in the wonders of the rail and bus. And more still by being around in situations where the child is interacting with a stressed out parent, not the fun relative.

I myself feel guilty for not being prepared to help out more for certain relatives, but that isn't because their kids are spoilt brats, it's because one has a developmental disorder so severe that in that situation, **** would get real, fast. And yet to most people, he probably does look like just a spoilt brat, and I just look like an idiot who can't parent a child. So for good or bad, given my reluctance to get grown ass adults to do the right thing without offering chapter and verse of our particular circumstances, he probably doesn't get out as much as he should (thereby worsening his condition I suspect).

You did a good thing OP. Maybe more than you know. You feel bad because you know deep down that your (imho pretty cynical) view of the world meant that you came quite close to doing a bad thing.

You should probably work on that.

 

[Man_with_beard]

You did the right thing, sometimes children act like children and it's OK to be nice to them. To everyone carrying on about "brats" etc. I'd suggest this says something not very good about you, or at the very least you don't have much experience in what it's actually like looking after children.

Don't judge others just because they don't speak the same narrative as you and also, just because people have children doesn't mean they have to share the same narrative as you.

 

[ar10642]

You did the right thing.

The young girl may well have had some form of anxiety / mental health condition / been a little poorly / whatever. Given that you said the mum was grateful and relieved, it may well be the case that she, too, was struggling, and not only with the child.

I would always give up my seat to someone who appeared to need it more than me, regardless of age, sex, whatever. By extension, if I’m already standing I will often ask those seated if they might be able to give up their seat in such cases. The response to this question is one of my litmus tests for ‘are they a decent person’.

I’m of the opinion that 95% of people who appear to be in need usually are.

This is the right answer. Being a parent is often not easy and some small gestures of kindness often go a long way. The OP probably made the mother's day.

Of course it's a different story if the child is being aggressive and demanding people move out of their seats or something, but the default position of too many in society is to almost go out of their way to be unfriendly and uncaring to children and families.

Don't judge others just because they don't speak the same narrative as you and also, just because people have children doesn't mean they have to share the same narrative as you.

People are absolutely fine with judging parents though aren't they?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Definitely not. The five year old could sit on the mother's knee (were she four and thus not needing a ticket, this is railway policy), or the mother could stand. Or the kid could sit comfortably on the floor; kids are bendy enough to do that, middle aged me is not.

Up to you if you want to, of course, but no way would I.

 

[irish_rail]

Fair play to you. In a society of selfishness everyday acts of kindness go along way. And as others have pointed out, the child may not have been well . I like to think I'd do the same.

 

[Man_with_beard]

People are absolutely fine with judging parents though aren't they?

Which people are "absolutely fine with judging the parents"? The same people who refuse to give up their seat for a screaming toddler. Maybe that person themself needed the seat and they too have a hidden disability or a sprained ankle. Only the parent will know their own child's needs so why can't they get up off their backside and provide a seat for their toothless little brat instead of expecting others to do it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Fair play to you. In a society of selfishness everyday acts of kindness go along way. And as others have pointed out, the child may not have been well . I like to think I'd do the same.

For non obvious situations (e.g. invisible disabilities) I do expect people to open their mouths and ask. "Do you mind if my child takes your seat? She has injured her leg and can't stand for long, and it's really upsetting her."

Though only if it's obvious she couldn't viably sit on the parent's knee, which a 5 year old mostly could.