IET's grounded - what would you run?

[JonathanH]

If we are looking long term. Could 365s cover London - York as it stops at all shacks (in ECML terms)

At the moment the issues aren't that significant for LNER so bringing a few 225s out and lopping the Scottish stuff is probably enough.

365s continuing on GTR for a short period to displace 387s to GWR might make more sense but 365s can only go to Peterborough so the number of 387s potentially released is small and clearly GTR were hoping to be rid of their 365s at the end of the week so will have been planning on that basis.

 

[cactustwirly]

If we are looking long term. Could 365s cover London - York as it stops at all shacks (in ECML terms)

LNER isn't as badly affected as GWR, using the 365s they could be used on GN, then sending the 387s to GWR temporarily.

If enough traincrew are trained then they could operate to Cardiff

 

[Class360/1]

GWR: spare hst’s, turbos
LNER: 91’s

 

[JonathanH]

GWR: spare hst’s, turbos

Best to use them on the routes where they are currently allocated though - eg run the remaining locals with them - the use of Turbos on North Cotswolds and the Kennet line probably accounts for any available slack. Same with HSTs across the route from Cardiff to Penzance.

There really isn't any point in raising enthusiasts hopes of seeing HSTs further east if they would then make special effort to fill up the trains.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Had another thought.

Avanti West Coast aren't presently running anything like a full service, in particular they are not, if I recall, running past Preston on the Scotland-via-Brum service.

Assuming they can crew it, how about reinstating that service with all trains running to Edinburgh?

 

[JonathanH]

Had another thought.

Avanti West Coast aren't presently running anything like a full service, in particular they are not, if I recall, running past Preston on the Scotland-via-Brum service.

Assuming they can crew it, how about reinstating that service with all trains running to Edinburgh?

Again, at the moment, there doesn't appear to be as significant a problem on LNER (ie 801s available) so solutions on the west coast aren't needed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Again, at the moment, there doesn't appear to be as significant a problem on LNER (ie 801s available) so solutions on the west coast aren't needed.

Ah, fair enough.

Another thought while I'm here - bustitute the Cornish branches and Severn Beach to release 15x (and Turbos? Or are they all in Bristol?) They are hardly going to be busy at the moment with most holiday accommodation closed.

 

[Class 317]

Had another thought.

Avanti West Coast aren't presently running anything like a full service, in particular they are not, if I recall, running past Preston on the Scotland-via-Brum service.

Assuming they can crew it, how about reinstating that service with all trains running to Edinburgh?

Advanti should be looking to redeploy Pendos to free up voyagers which can then be deployed with XC so that they can provide more help to GWR.

Given the reduced timetable on West coast I'm assuming maybe 3-4 could be made available over the next couple of days?

Also given the large reduction in XC services train crew should be available.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Had another thought.

Avanti West Coast aren't presently running anything like a full service, in particular they are not, if I recall, running past Preston on the Scotland-via-Brum service.

Assuming they can crew it, how about reinstating that service with all trains running to Edinburgh?

Don’t see the point, they’re very nastily not even letting LNER ticket holders go to Edinburgh or Glasgow with them, only to Manchester for an awkward connection onto TPE, and even then it’s flexible ticket holders only. Advances have to buy a new ticket. I think it’s disgraceful.

 

[Clansman]

Without any incentives or being forced by the DfT, what's giving members on here the impression that TOCs will willingly make sacrifices for the sake of the 800/801/802 debacle?

A problem in the north is always a crisis in the south for some reason.

Spot on.

 

[cactustwirly]

Without any incentives or being forced by the DfT, what's giving members on here the impression that TOCs will willingly make sacrifices for the sake of the 800/801/802 debacle?


Spot on.

They won't, but I imagine the DfT is working on this behind the scenes.
After all one of the busiest intercity lines has its train service wiped out. The DfT ordered these trains so it is their mess (and Hitachi's) to clear up.

 

[HSTEd]

About 36 miles from Reading to Paddington, at 90 miles an hour that is 24 minutes, call it 30 with acceleration/deceleration and padding.

Probably manage one round trip every 90 minutes.

If they require 34 trainsets for the normal services TfL Rail are running, then there are probably 25 ish available.

So you could run manage trains per hour non-stop shuttle between Reading and Paddington.
The primarily limitation would be drivers who sign them.

Have they been recruiting drivers for service opening yet?

 

[cactustwirly]

About 36 miles from Reading to Paddington, at 90 miles an hour that is 24 minutes, call it 30 with acceleration/deceleration and padding.

Probably manage one round trip every 90 minutes.

If they require 34 trainsets for the normal services TfL Rail are running, then there are probably 25 ish available.

So you could run manage trains per hour non-stop shuttle between Reading and Paddington.
The primarily limitation would be drivers who sign them.

Have they been recruiting drivers for service opening yet?

But where would you terminate these services at Reading?

I don't see it happening tbh

 

[popeter45]

thinking about avanti and how they and XC both run 221's
Euston to Cardiff direct via Birmingham new street as a joint XC-Avanti service?

 

[JonathanH]

But where would you terminate these services at Reading?

I don't see it happening tbh

I don't think terminating trains at Reading is an issue in any of the platforms. It appears that GWR are confident that the loadings aren't such that MTR Crossrail need to be asked to fill the gap.

 

[Energy]

Given that GWR and XC are pretty heavily controlled by the DfT, could some voyagers operate services from Reading? Virgin XC did send them to paddington so the trains are cleared but it wouldnt make sense to train staff.

 

[cactustwirly]

I don't think terminating trains at Reading is an issue in any of the platforms. It appears that GWR are confident that the loadings aren't such that MTR Crossrail need to be asked to fill the gap.

The hourly fast 387s from Didcot did look rather cosy this afternoon!

 

[JonathanH]

The hourly fast 387s from Didcot did look rather cosy this afternoon!

Interestingly, if you believe that what is shown in RTT is the plan for tomorrow, the only options for travel from Reading to London for an hour from about 6pm tomorrow will be stopping 345s into Paddington - there is no main line service from Reading to Paddington between 1742 and 1942.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Not a bad idea - non-ATP fitted sets would be limited to 110mph on GWML as that’s what the various non-ATP safety systems are all set up for on the route. (IIRC Voyagers are dispensated Reading to Didcot)

TPWS+ is fitted between Reading and Didcot to allow the Voyagers to run at 125mph.

 

[randyrippley]

Anyone looking at the WCRC fleet at Carnforth?
Using their locos and mk2 stock on Lancaster-Barrow / Cumbrian Coast / Windermere could start a cascade of 15x stock south.
If some trips used steam locos it would be a useful tourism boost

 

[Horizon22]

Interestingly, if you believe that what is shown in RTT is the plan for tomorrow, the only options for travel from Reading to London for an hour from about 6pm tomorrow will be stopping 345s into Paddington - there is no main line service from Reading to Paddington between 1742 and 1942.

Still got the semi-fast Didcot - Paddington stoppers and "peak" services at that time.

 

[Phlip]

I wonder if Hull Trains could spare an 802 to send down to GWR? They only currently require 1 out of 4 Monday - Thursday for their current timetable. Every little helps.

I hope someone's pointed out to the DFT that this situation would be easier to deal with had they actually completed the electrification.

 

[Ianno87]

I hope someone's pointed out to the DFT that this situation would be easier to deal with had they actually completed the electrification.

Ah, good old hindsight. GWR had never been planned to be a fully electric railway anyway - south-west of Bristol/Newbury and Swindon-Cheltenham have never had formal wiring proposals.

 

[43096]

Ah, good old hindsight. GWR had never been planned to be a fully electric railway anyway - south-west of Bristol/Newbury and Swindon-Cheltenham have never had formal wiring proposals.

Wires into Bristol, via at least one of Box or Hullavington would have been rather useful.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

GWR Class 802 leased from Eversholt
TPE and Hull Trains Class 802 leased from Angel Trains
East Coast Trains Class 803 leased from Beacon Rail
Avanti Class 805 and 807 leased from Rock Rail West Coast
EMR Class 810 leased from Rock Rail East Midlands

err... hang on, how many different leasing companies???...

and thats not all of them, just the ones involved in IEP. So who are Agility Trains?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 May 2021 ==

Wires into Bristol, via at least one of Box or Hullavington would have been rather useful.

useful usually means common sense. Even I keep making that mistake of employing common sense on the railway....

 

[irish_rail]

I wonder if Hull Trains could spare an 802 to send down to GWR? They only currently require 1 out of 4 Monday - Thursday for their current timetable. Every little helps.

I hope someone's pointed out to the DFT that this situation would be easier to deal with had they actually completed the electrification.

This would of course make sense HOWEVER the lack of ATP on the Hull sets would almost certainly make them not allowed to run over GWR metals , certainly over the ATP fitted bits (which is everything close to London Reading and Swindon and Bristol).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 May 2021 ==

They can run but only at 110mph

XC are running Swindon to Bristol and they're not fitted with ATP obviously

Is that in GWRs safety case? You may well be right through come to mention it! In which case get some of those lovely purple trains down here pronto!

 

[JonathanH]

Still got the semi-fast Didcot - Paddington stoppers and "peak" services at that time.

I was referring to the Reading to London direction - with a gap of one hour between Didcot to Paddington stoppers it is just the four TfL Rail services during that hour.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...21-05-10/1805-1915?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[adc82140]

If this drags on for many weeks, what stock is realistically available? There are the 365s and the ROG 360s. I think we'll ignore the withdrawn 317s and 321s as they are fit for the scrapheap only. The service would have to be split so that what 800s/802s are available are not wasted running under the wires.


Are the ROG 360/2s in any position to be deployed? I was thinking in terms of using them to increase capacity on the London-Didcot corridor (perhaps increase the fast service to half hourly).

How would the ROG spot hire business work anyway? No TOC drivers are trained on these units, would ROG provide the drivers and the TOC drivers route conduct? Or are they intended for longer hire, where the TOC drivers would be trained?

 

[Failed Unit]

How many mk4 sets could be formed (I know LNER have 7) but is other stock about. Has HST knowledge all lapsed now (With MMLs mk3 use finishing)

 

[JonathanH]

Has HST knowledge all lapsed now (With MMLs mk3 use finishing)

MML Mk3s simply come with too many issues to be used as substitute rolling stock on GWR - eg attractive to enthusiasts, slam doors, droplights and so on. Simply not acceptable no matter what the problem.