If there were a general election in a month, whom would you vote for to most effectively get us out of this mess?

[bussnapperwm]

I would spoil the paper. I've had enough of the whole sick corrupt lot of them now.

Same here. I was a Labour voter, but no longer

 

[jfollows]

Michael Gove is one of the few members of the Cabinet with any serious ability, the majority of whom are there because of their support for Boris Johnson and his policies. Gove is there because he's a threat to Boris (because he wants his job and has the ability to do it) and therefore is better off being inside the Cabinet so that he can be watched rather than being a threat from the back benches.
I don't trust Michael Gove any more than I trust Boris Johnson, which is not at all.
But I do think he's a viable contender to replace Boris Johnson as leader of the Conservative party and Prime Minister.

 

[jfollows]

Remember, Michael Gove arranged for his daughter to be tested for Covid-19 at a time when tests were in short supply and definitely not available for people with potential symptoms, to allow Michael Gove to stop "self-isolating" and go back to work. I don't think he had more reason to do that than a train driver whose daughter was showing symptoms, but he and others did.
(see https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/13/mich...ghter-24-hours-showed-mild-symptoms-12548268/ or https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-Michael-Goves-daughter-coronavirus-test.html for example)

 

[bramling]

Michael Gove is one of the few members of the Cabinet with any serious ability, the majority of whom are there because of their support for Boris Johnson and his policies. Gove is there because he's a threat to Boris (because he wants his job and has the ability to do it) and therefore is better off being inside the Cabinet so that he can be watched rather than being a threat from the back benches.
I don't trust Michael Gove any more than I trust Boris Johnson, which is not at all.
But I do think he's a viable contender to replace Boris Johnson as leader of the Conservative party and Prime Minister.

Interesting, and perhaps even more interesting that Gove has kept a respectable distance from all this. Yes I tend to agree with the posters suggesting Gove is a viable contender. He would need to avoid being seen as the assassin though, not that Johnson needs one - he seems to be doing a pretty good job of destroying himself.

 

[Andyh82]

Starmer comes across strongly but I don’t rate Jonathan Ashworth,the shadow health minister at all, and Sunak is strong and is blantently going to be the next Tory leader.

I also realise that it’s very easy to be in opposition, it’s very different being in power. All you do in opposition is complain that everything is taking too long even if it might not be physically possible to be quicker.

I think most felt it was going as well as could be expected and the government had a decent amount of goodwill that nobody could have done better until the Cummings saga. That should have been nipped in the bud quickly. He could even have sacked him and then brought him back later if he wanted and probably got away with it better.

 

[BJames]

Oh; I thought there was going to be a poll here!

This would be good, I've seen a lot of labour comments but I'd like to see the percentage on this forum.

 

[Richard Scott]

One infected person spread the virus to 71 others:

Woman infects 71 people with coronavirus after one lift trip

Researchers believe asymptomatic patient contaminated facilities in tower block

www.independent.co.uk

It's not hyperbolic to say that actions affect others.

Is there any concrete evidence in this article? I stopped reading after the word 'believe' as that makes it speculation not fact.

 

[edwin_m]

Is there any concrete evidence in this article? I stopped reading after the word 'believe' as that makes it speculation not fact.

If the person suspected isn't the spreader then there is at least one unknown spreader out there. Either way the virus can spread very easily even when people are taking precautions.

 

[alex397]

Michael Gove is one of the few members of the Cabinet with any serious ability, the majority of whom are there because of their support for Boris Johnson and his policies. Gove is there because he's a threat to Boris (because he wants his job and has the ability to do it) and therefore is better off being inside the Cabinet so that he can be watched rather than being a threat from the back benches.
I don't trust Michael Gove any more than I trust Boris Johnson, which is not at all.
But I do think he's a viable contender to replace Boris Johnson as leader of the Conservative party and Prime Minister.

That’s the first time I’ve ever heard anything vaguely positive about Gove. In my opinion he is one of the worst of the current Tory government.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

The ideal situation for me would be a Conservative government with Sir Keir Starmer as prime minister!

I'm convinced Starmer is a natural Tory; he's from a respectable middle class background with a good education and a background in law and of course he's accepted a knighthood, which no true socialist ever would do.

Although I've been impressed with his performance at PMQs, beneath the surface the Labour party is still a ragbag of PC feminists and student activists who loathe patriotic white middle class males, which means I couldn't vote Labour with a clear conscience. But then I couldn't vote Tory either due to their hypocrisy and handling of the Coronavirus pandemic. And realistically there are no other parties who could ever stand a chance of forming a government.

 

[nr758123]

I would go with Michael Gove.

No. No. No. And a thousand times no.

Gove is a key figure within the Vote Leave crowd who act as though they can combat a virus by repeating three word slogans.

Three word slogans and lies won them the referendum, but only a complete idiot could believe that the virus takes any notice of them.

[Listed in order of seniority] Cummings, Johnson, and Gove have all got to go, along with the rest of their Vote Leave cronies.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

It's not worth bothering with until the whole Brexit farce is played out and we see the results of both that and Covid 19 next year.
The Tories are just getting away with it at the moment, making big policy decisions without any proper challenge.
Labour can only be reactive, and they won't put up a new set of policies for a couple of years yet, until the next election looms.
Starmer is competent and steady, but his time hasn't come yet.
And the far left is still lurking in the background.
The sane voices like Alan Johnson, Vince Cable and Ken Clarke are long gone, and I can't see their replacements as senior ministers.

On balance I agree with these sentiments.

 

[jfollows]

That’s the first time I’ve ever heard anything vaguely positive about Gove. In my opinion he is one of the worst of the current Tory government.

Know your enemy!
And see my post #63

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The ideal situation for me would be a Conservative government with Sir Keir Starmer as prime minister!

But Gove and Cummings have to go -right?

 

[alex397]

Although I've been impressed with his performance at PMQs, beneath the surface the Labour party is still a ragbag of PC feminists and student activists who loathe patriotic white middle class males, which means I couldn't vote Labour with a clear conscience. But then I couldn't vote Tory either due to their hypocrisy and handling of the Coronavirus pandemic. And realistically there are no other parties who could ever stand a chance of forming a government.

Perhaps I’m in the minority, but I don’t see what’s wrong with ‘PC feminists’.

Generally speaking, political correctness is good for society, and feminism is good for both men and women. Although a rail forum is probably not the best place for me to state this....

 

[jfollows]

That’s the first time I’ve ever heard anything vaguely positive about Gove. In my opinion he is one of the worst of the current Tory government.

Also, it's not that hard to look good when you compare him with Dominic Raab, Priti Patel, Gavin Williamson, to name but a few. Is it?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

---- and Sunak is strong and is blatantly going to be the next Tory leader.

Do you not think Sajid Javid has a chance? Either way it would be great to see a BAME person become PM - it really would imho.

 

[alex397]

(

 

[CaptainHaddock]

But Gove and Cummings have to go -right?

Seems a fair swap!

 

[BJames]

No. No. No. And a thousand times no.

Gove is a key figure within the Vote Leave crowd who act as though they can combat a virus by repeating three word slogans.

Three word slogans and lies won them the referendum, but only a complete idiot could believe that the virus takes any notice of them.

[Listed in order of seniority] Cummings, Johnson, and Gove have all got to go, along with the rest of their Vote Leave cronies.

Gove is actually a very good orator. He's done some good speeches. But that's about it. I would in no way ever support a government in which he was leader. But I think it's highly unlikely that it could ever get to that stage. Sunak is a possibility but I still wouldn't vote Conservative.

Do you not think Sajid Javid has a chance? Either way it would be great to see a BAME person become PM - it really would imho.

Possibly and I actually like him. He stood up to Johnson when him and Cummings tried to interfere and he's not stupid.

The ideal situation for me would be a Conservative government with Sir Keir Starmer as prime minister!

I'm convinced Starmer is a natural Tory; he's from a respectable middle class background with a good education and a background in law and of course he's accepted a knighthood, which no true socialist ever would do.

Although I've been impressed with his performance at PMQs, beneath the surface the Labour party is still a ragbag of PC feminists and student activists who loathe patriotic white middle class males, which means I couldn't vote Labour with a clear conscience. But then I couldn't vote Tory either due to their hypocrisy and handling of the Coronavirus pandemic. And realistically there are no other parties who could ever stand a chance of forming a government.

I'd place Starmer as very much centre, centre-left at a push but certainly not leftwing. Although I don't want another Conservative government I agree that there remains some issues within the Labour party. But we're never going to get it perfect, and as you say others can't form a government - Lib Dems lost far too much of their vote share to regain it that quickly - so Labour gets my vote. Not that it really matters anyway, my constituency hasn't been Conservative for years.

 

[bramling]

That’s the first time I’ve ever heard anything vaguely positive about Gove. In my opinion he is one of the worst of the current Tory government.

Out of interest, why do you think that? Personally I’m neutral on him.

 

[Scrotnig]

Do you not think Sajid Javid has a chance? Either way it would be great to see a BAME person become PM - it really would imho.

I'd almost forgotten about him. Yes he'd be a good shout, and he is also untainted by this crisis while still being a heavyweight in government terms.

If he has any sense however he'll not go near the job until this crisis is well past.

And yes it WOULD be good to have a BAME person as PM, although that's not the reason I think he would be good in the role, it's because as a politician I think he has many of the right qualities, including integrity.

 

[bramling]

The ideal situation for me would be a Conservative government with Sir Keir Starmer as prime minister!

You know what that’s actually not a bad shout at all.

Shopping in a very relaxed and chilled Tesco just now, the most normal it’s been since February, all this was on my mind, and it crossed my mind that part of the trouble with Johnson is that he seems completely incapable of thinking through the consequences of any of his decisions. The bungling through February and March brought us things like the panic buying and supermarket carnage, a lot of which could have been avoidable if he’d simply thought through a strategy and communicated it robustly. Likewise some of the overcrowding in honeypot locations was completely foreseeable and artificially created, yet again was left to police and councils to pick up the pieces. Same that anyone could have predicted the combination of fear and furlough would create a longer term problem. Just last week he opened his mouth with a flippant comment about driverless Underground trains and completely infuriates a group of people who have worked hard right through all this. Meanwhile reading in RAIL apparently London came within 5 minutes of having its transport system shut down, all thanks to an utterly ridiculous game of politics with the mayor - this is the sort of incredulity we seem to be dealing with.

Johnson seems completely incapable of thinking anything through in detail, which combined with dithering so no one knows what he’s actually going to until he announces it, just leaves others with an almighty pile of brown stuff to pick up behind him. We saw the same when he was London mayor.

I really think he has to go ASAP. How much longer can we put up with all this?

 

[alex397]

Out of interest, why do you think that? Personally I’m neutral on him.

Mainly his hypocrisy when it comes to his cocaine use, the rubbish he spoke about Brexit, and what he did to education.

 

[SteveM70]

Mainly his hypocrisy when it comes to his cocaine use, the rubbish he spoke about Brexit, and what he did to education.

And his bloody wife would fancy the Cummings role.

 

[alex397]

And his bloody wife would fancy the Cummings role.

Ah yes, how can we forget Sarah Vain. The Tory brown noser at the Daily Fail.

 

[Domh245]

And his bloody wife would fancy the Cummings role.

Seeing as it was Gove who brought Cummings in as his Special Advisor way back in 2007, I think there's a decent chance that Cummings would still be around in any Gove premiership!

 

[DelW]

Not if the current R rate is to be believed (not that means anything). I’m also not sure how much credence I’d lend any kind of research coming out of China.

Even assuming that figure were true, so what? The *vast* majority of those who contract this virus suffer either no symptoms, or very mild symptoms.

But it is hyperbolic to say “your choice can kill me”, in respect of someone you don’t know and will most likely never meet! Normal life has been suspended in this country, as a result of a virus that is only marginally more lethal than a bad flu season.

It’s normal for 50,000 people to die per day in this country. We’ve had fewer deaths than that “with” (not necessarily due to) Covid, in several months. Yet the government has reacted to this virus as if we had a new, incurable version of the bubonic plague (which killed 1/3 of the population, in just one wave, it my memory is correct).

Yet we’ve trampled over civil liberties, spent the equivalent of the national GDP in three months, sent thousands of cancer patients home to die, and are now heading for the worst recession for 300 years...

Does any of that seem rational to you?

The R rate is an estimated average across the country, it doesn't mean that any given case can't exceed that, in fact around half will inevitably infect more than the average.

50,000 deaths per day would be over 18 million a year. If that was correct the entire population of the UK would be wiped out in four years.

In April and May, the numbers dying were considerably above the five year average, by as much as 60,000 in total. It is not a trivial disease for many people.

 

[45107]

Not if the current R rate is to be believed (not that means anything). I’m also not sure how much credence I’d lend any kind of research coming out of China.

Even assuming that figure were true, so what? The *vast* majority of those who contract this virus suffer either no symptoms, or very mild symptoms.



But it is hyperbolic to say “your choice can kill me”, in respect of someone you don’t know and will most likely never meet! Normal life has been suspended in this country, as a result of a virus that is only marginally more lethal than a bad flu season.

It’s normal for 50,000 people to die per day in this country. We’ve had fewer deaths than that “with” (not necessarily due to) Covid, in several months. Yet the government has reacted to this virus as if we had a new, incurable version of the bubonic plague (which killed 1/3 of the population, in just one wave, it my memory is correct).

Yet we’ve trampled over civil liberties, spent the equivalent of the national GDP in three months, sent thousands of cancer patients home to die, and are now heading for the worst recession for 300 years...

Does any of that seem rational to you?

If the population of country is approx 70 million (I believe that it is lower than that), and 50,000 die each day, that represents 3.7% of the popluation passing away each year

I will not add any further comment.

(post edited to alter the word ‘day’ to ‘year’ from original reply)

 

[BJames]

Out of interest, why do you think that? Personally I’m neutral on him.

Adding a second voice to this, I disliked him as education secretary, he pushed through some very controversial and (in my opinion) poorly judged changes to schooling, including his changes to GCSEs and Free Schools, and his attempt to re-write the curriculum in his own way. An opinion article in the independent summed up the feeling that was amongst teachers I've spoken to in the last few years, and gave this quote (https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...-him-do-the-same-to-the-country-a7115381.html):

After just six years in teaching I am walking away from the profession altogether and I’m not alone. 50,000 teachers left in 2015 and a recent survey found that nearly 50 per cent of teachers are considering leaving in the next five years. This is not a legacy Michael Gove should be proud of.