If you boarded wrong train.

[AnthonyRail]

Over heard a man saying he had gotten on the wrong train at bristol parkway and ended up going through the Severn tunnel into Wales towards Swansea, instead of through Bristol Temple Meads (BRI) on route to intended destination of Plymouth.

He said he got off at Newport and boarded next train back to Bristol parkway.

Would this have been a fine?

He had a ticket but accidentally boarded the wrong train in a rush due to delays

 

[najaB]

Would this have been a fine? He had a ticket but accidentally boarded wrong train in a rush due to delays

This is similar to the scenario where you accidentally get over-carried. I expect that most guards would treat you similarly and put you on the next train to the right destination.

 

[Greenback]

I've done the same thing a couple of times (don' ask me how!). Once it was a stopping train so I managed to get off again quite quickly without encountering a guard at all. The other occasions involved a HST, and I simply explained to the guard that I misheard an announcement and ended up on the wrong train. There was no issue at all.

 

[shredder1]

Station staff pointed to the wrong train once, fortunatly I realise they had got it wrong before the train left.

 

[yorkie]

A fine could not be issued.

I would hope common sense would be applied and the majority of staff with responsibility for checkng tickets are very good at sending when a genuine mistake has been made and providing excellent customer service to get the passenger back on track.

I have boarded the wrong train a few times but it was not a major problem on any occasion.

 

[anme]

A fine could not be issued.

Why not? Isn't the passenger in violation of the railway bylaws, for which "I accidentally got on the wrong train" is not a valid defence?

Obviously I'm not arguing that the passenger should be fined in these circumstances, but isn't it at least theoretically possible?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, RoRA couldn't be applied as it requires intent, but the Byelaws could. I also don't see why a Penalty Fare could not, as this is typically used for genuine mistakes.

 

[najaB]

Why not? Isn't the passenger in violation of the railway bylaws, for which "I accidentally got on the wrong train" is not a valid defence?

Arguably, when they boarded they were in possession of a ticket entitling them to travel on the railway.

 

[yorkie]

Why not? Isn't the passenger in violation of the railway bylaws, for which "I accidentally got on the wrong train" is not a valid defence?

Obviously I'm not arguing that the passenger should be fined in these circumstances, but isn't it at least theoretically possible?

Theoretically, the passenger could be prosecuted, and if found guilty, a court could issue a fine for a Byelaw offence (assuming ticket issuing facilities were available at the time of travel).

 

[fowler9]

Apologies if anyone has heard this before but I have had a few mental health issues the last few years, depression, anxiety, insomnia. It has resulted in me dozing off on trains and missing stops, I have made it as far as London on one occasion (Not proud) when meaning to get off at Crewe. On every occasion it happened the train crew didn't just use discretion, they were downright lovely people and were very helpful. I don't know if maybe I just come across as an honest person or if it just that the crew and barrier staff are just damn good at recognising when someone is taking the mick. I guess for many it is quite easy to recognise the stress on someones face. I guess that is the same for someone who has managed to get on the wrong train.

 

[najaB]

I also don't see why a Penalty Fare could not, as this is typically used for genuine mistakes.

I agree that a Penalty Fare would be valid in this situation.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I've been over carried several times without being charged to get back where I wanted to be. Once I even got on the wrong train at Stoke (due to dodgy departure board) and the train didn't stop at Milton Keynes so I got the ticket endorsed by the guard, caught the next train back from Euston AND got delay/repay

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've been over carried several times without being charged to get back where I wanted to be. Once I even got on the wrong train at Stoke (due to dodgy departure board) and the train didn't stop at Milton Keynes so I got the ticket endorsed by the guard, caught the next train back from Euston AND got delay/repay

I think most staff will be reasonable as long as you aren't obviously taking the mick. Fail the attitude test, however...

 

[Stigy]

Arguably, when they boarded they were in possession of a ticket entitling them to travel on the railway.

Not necessarily a valid one though, as per Byelaw 18...Again the ambiguity of the Byelaws allowing interpretation springs to mind.

 

[najaB]

Not necessarily a valid one though, as per Byelaw 18...Again the ambiguity of the Byelaws allowing interpretation springs to mind.

I suppose. It might depend on if the train you board is one that potentially could be used with the ticket held - for example if I boarded a London Euston train at Edinburgh with a ticket to Newcastle, having intended to board a Kings Cross train. If I alight before the train passes Carlisle I'm not off route (though in that example you'd probably be better off continuing via Carlisle due to the distances involved).

 

[fowler9]

I think most staff will be reasonable as long as you aren't obviously taking the mick. Fail the attitude test, however...

I think the staff are very good at the attitude test, it also helps to have a bit of evidence. The last time I was overcarried was to Milton Keynes when I was travelling from Chester to Crewe. I had my Virgin return to Crewe from Lime Street and a return from Crewe to Chester. When I got to Milton Keynes the barrier staff endorsed my ticket (I think) and even let me off the station for a cigarette. The ticket was noted with the time of train I had to get back to Crewe. It was a much longer day than was meant to be. When I hear stories about how awful the staff on the railways were I often have to wonder about how polite the complainant was and if they were being honest about their intentions.

 

[FenMan]

I agree.

A couple of years ago I was catching a southbound XCountry at Reading. Opposite me were a middle aged couple who started to act in an agitated way. I asked if they needed any help and was asked if this was the train to London.

Ah.

It turned out they were going to Harlesden for a family christening. I advised them to explain the situation to the guard and that it may be better to take the next fast train from Basingstoke to Waterloo rather than head back towards Reading. The guard made a nice job of it, endorsing their tickets and telling them which train to catch and the best route across London towards Harlesden.

Panic over and smiles all round.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Why not? Isn't the passenger in violation of the railway bylaws, for which "I accidentally got on the wrong train" is not a valid defence?

Obviously I'm not arguing that the passenger should be fined in these circumstances, but isn't it at least theoretically possible?

Good question.

You are correct to say that it is "at least theoretically possible" for the front-line member of staff who comes across such an incident to refuse travel and/or to take a note of the evidence of the facts to be presented for consideration by an appropriate Investigator for a Prosecution, and then at the end of their turn or shift, to hand them in.
And it is correct to say that it is "at least theoretically possible" for the Company's revenue protection team to consider the facts and decide to pursue a Prosecution against that passenger.
And it is correct to say that it is "at least theoretically possible" for them to instruct their Prosecutor and to apply a form of the 'full code test' to confirm that a prosecution would be both in the public interest and that the evidence id adequate to make a conviction likely.
And it is correct to say that it is "at least theoretically possible" for the team and the Prosecutor to both make the irrational decision that it is appropriate to prosecute.
And it is correct to say that it is "at least theoretically possible" for the Court to list the Prosecution for a hearing.
And it is correct to say that it is "at least theoretically possible" for the Court to find that the facts as stated lead them 'beyond all reasonable doubt' to find the passenger Guilty.
And it is correct to say that it is "at least theoretically possible" for pigs to fly.

I'm not expecting either of those outcomes ever to be reported, even the committed anti-rail members of this forum would appear to be struggling to do so if asked to provide real examples of actual convictions in such circumstances. I believe that Pink Floyd provided some evidence of flying pigs over the south bank of the Thames.

 

[Karl]

I believe that Pink Floyd provided some evidence of flying pigs over the south bank of the Thames.

Great thread and a thanks to DaveNewcastle for reminding me of a great album I've not listened to for years. Until tonight....

Try it here... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfRWTg61W24&list=PL94gOvpr5yt2mKUAwVTaz50LMdZza8SOK

 

[fowler9]

Just repeating myself here I guess but I have never been charged a penalty fare for traveling beyond my destination. I have never been prosecuted. The most money I have had to pay out was a ticket back to Liverpool from Manchester and Runcorn after dozing off on the train after daft nights out. Never had a problem and I was happy to pay. I don't bunk on the train and I have to seriously question people who seem to find themselves in these bizarre situation where they made a mistake and the staff were completely unreasonable.