Ignorant Rail fare evasion- using rail card discount without knowledge of option being selected

[John R]

I know others will strongly disagree, but I'm with Hadders option 2. Just ignore it. I don't see they'll be able to do anything. It's a phising trip, don't give them a bite Without incriminating evidence from you there's nothing more they can do, they hope that having had a rise out of you last time, they can do it again.

Don’t forget that when first stopped the OP admitted to the inspector that they travelled several times a month, and by implication had failed to pay the correct fare on those instances too.

 

[skyhigh]

I know others will strongly disagree, but I'm with Hadders option 2. Just ignore it. I don't see they'll be able to do anything. It's a phising trip, don't give them a bite Without incriminating evidence from you there's nothing more they can do, they hope that having had a rise out of you last time, they can do it again.

The OP said in their previous letter to them:

I have understood how serious it is not to have paid the correct fare and I apologise for the previous occasions when this has happened.

Given the timeline is relatively short there is still time for a RoRA prosecution for at least some of the occasions. I suspect that if presented to a court, they would have enough evidence to convict without further input from the OP.

 

[Venky124]

Hi,

Here is the reply I have drafted to reply to the email I have received. Please proof read it and add your suggestions.


Dear West Midlands Railway,


I am writing to offer my sincere apologies for not being able to buy a correct ticket during my recent journeys. I am extremely sorry for any inconvenience or frustration that my actions may have caused, and I understand the importance of following the rules and regulations of the railway, and the importance of checking all the settings while booking a ticket online. Also, I now know to check my tickets carefully to ensure they are fully valid for use before I get on the train. I completely take responsibility for what has happened.


After the incident, I now understood my mistake and learned from it. I wish to assure you that I have learned from this experience, and I am committed to ensuring that it does not happen again in the future. Now, I have switched to the West Midlands Railway app from the Trainline app to book my tickets after advice from the Revenue Protection Officer to avoid any confusion in future while booking the tickets online. I have now bought the 26-30 Railcard that applies to me to use for my travel. Also, I have changed the settings on my device to ensure that the correct Railcard discount is selected. I have understood how serious it is not to have paid the correct fare and how important it is to check all the options before proceeding to book a ticket online.



I would be extremely grateful if you would allow me to pay the outstanding fares and your administrative costs in order to settle the matter without the need for court action. Please let me know the amount owed and the payment process, and I will make the payment promptly.


Once again, I apologize for any inconvenience caused and I hope that we can resolve this matter as quickly and smoothly as possible. I am assuring you that I’ll always make sure that I travel with a proper valid ticket every time.



Thank you for your understanding.

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi,

Here is the reply I have drafted to reply to the email I have received. Please proof read it and add your suggestions.


Dear West Midlands Railway,


I am writing to offer my sincere apologies for not being able to buy a correct ticket during my recent journeys. I am extremely sorry for any inconvenience or frustration that my actions may have caused, and I understand the importance of following the rules and regulations of the railway, and the importance of checking all the settings while booking a ticket online. Also, I now know to check my tickets carefully to ensure they are fully valid for use before I get on the train. I completely take responsibility for what has happened.


After the incident, I now understood my mistake and learned from it. I wish to assure you that I have learned from this experience, and I am committed to ensuring that it does not happen again in the future. Now, I have switched to the West Midlands Railway app from the Trainline app to book my tickets after advice from the Revenue Protection Officer to avoid any confusion in future while booking the tickets online. I have now bought the 26-30 Railcard that applies to me to use for my travel. Also, I have changed the settings on my device to ensure that the correct Railcard discount is selected. I have understood how serious it is not to have paid the correct fare and how important it is to check all the options before proceeding to book a ticket online.



I would be extremely grateful if you would allow me to pay the outstanding fares and your administrative costs in order to settle the matter without the need for court action. Please let me know the amount owed and the payment process, and I will make the payment promptly.


Once again, I apologize for any inconvenience caused and I hope that we can resolve this matter as quickly and smoothly as possible. I am assuring you that I’ll always make sure that I travel with a proper valid ticket every time.



Thank you for your understanding.

It's fine to use AI to generate the structure of the letter but it still needs to be in your own words; this isn't, and it shows. AI-generated letters are full of pleonasms and redundancies. They also use American English, which is another tell. We say "apologise" with an s, not a z.

"Not being able to buy" is such passive language when describing fare evasion you should not use it. You make it sound like some other barrier was preventing you, yet your letter then says you completely take responsibility.

Take out some of the flowery language and don't use contractions like "I'll" (especially when you don't use them elsewhere); this is a formal letter responding to a criminal allegation.

 

[BRX]

The OP said in their previous letter to them:

That wasn't in the final version - the actual letter they sent is in this post.

They followed the wise advice given on this thread, not to incriminate themselves by admitting any other offences.

 

[Venky124]

I have made some changes as per your suggestions. Please have a look and suggest if it needs any more changes/additions.



Dear West Midlands Railway,


I am writing to offer my sincere apologies for not buying a correct ticket during my recent journeys. I am extremely sorry for any inconvenience or frustration that my actions may have caused, and I understand the importance of following the rules and regulations of the railway, and the importance of checking all the settings while booking a ticket online. Also, I now know to check my tickets carefully to ensure they are fully valid for use before I get on the train. I completely take responsibility for what has happened.


After the incident, I now understood my mistake and learned from it, and I am committed to ensuring that it does not happen again in the future. Now, I have switched to the West Midlands Railway app from the Trainline app to book my tickets after the advice from the Revenue Protection Officer to avoid any confusion in the future while booking the tickets online. I have now bought the 26-30 Railcard that applies to me to use for my travel. Also, I have changed the settings on my device to ensure that the correct Railcard discount is selected. I have understood how serious it is not to have paid the correct fare and how important it is to check all the options before proceeding to book a ticket online.



I would be grateful if you would allow me to pay the outstanding fares and your administrative costs in order to settle the matter without the need for court action and swiftly resolve this matter. Please let me know the amount owed and the payment process, and I will make the payment promptly.


Once again, I apologise for any inconvenience caused and I hope that we can resolve this matter as quickly and smoothly as possible. I am assuring you that I will always make sure that I travel with a proper valid ticket every time.



Thank you for your understanding.

It's fine to use AI to generate the structure of the letter but it still needs to be in your own words; this isn't, and it shows. AI-generated letters are full of pleonasms and redundancies. They also use American English, which is another tell. We say "apologise" with an s, not a z.

"Not being able to buy" is such passive language when describing fare evasion you should not use it. You make it sound like some other barrier was preventing you, yet your letter then says you completely take responsibility.

Take out some of the flowery language and don't use contractions like "I'll" (especially when you don't use them elsewhere); this is a formal letter responding to a criminal allegation.

 

[furlong]

You need to go back and re-read the previous correspondance VERY carefully.

I think you wrote to them "I would be extremely grateful if you would allow me to pay the outstanding fares and your administrative costs in order to settle the matter without the need for court action. Please let me know the amount owed and the payment process, and I will make the payment promptly."

Note - fares in the PLURAL.

They responded, asking for 180.10 choosing only to ask you to pay one of the fares, but nevertheless they were clearly aware there were more occasions because you told them so in your letter! So I think you might be able to construct an argument that the settlement was in respect of ALL the previous cases. Certainly if they've been able to see the data now, they were able to see it before offering that settlement. In other words, I think any attempt to prosecute when you already settled would first have to overcome the hurdle of this looking like an abuse of process - trying to take a second bite of the cherry in other words when they should instead have either asked for more money the first time if they thought it wasn't enough to cover everything, or else explicitly qualified the first settlement by stating it was only provisional as their investigations into other occasions were continuing.

(You might need legal advice to present that sort of argument correctly. They would also know of the other occasions if they had been reading this forum, which counts equally. And if the OP told the inspector at the time they were stopped, then that can surely leave no argument that the company didn't know and therefore necessarily it had to have taken everything into account in its original settlement. There's a basic principle that you can't deal with one offence based on the facts in your possession, regardless of whether or not you've fully comprehended their full implications, and then return later alleging a more serious one. You only get one opportunity and are expected to have evaluated everything available to you before deciding how to proceed.)

 

[Fawkes Cat]

You need to go back and re-read the previous correspondance VERY carefully.

I think you wrote to them "I would be extremely grateful if you would allow me to pay the outstanding fares and your administrative costs in order to settle the matter without the need for court action. Please let me know the amount owed and the payment process, and I will make the payment promptly."

Note - fares in the PLURAL.

They responded, asking for 180.10 choosing only to ask you to pay one of the fares, but nevertheless they were clearly aware there were more occasions because you told them so in your letter! So I think you might be able to construct an argument.

I know I have only quoted part of the post, but I would suggest that realistically this isn't good advice. On the assumption that the OP will want this matter to go away (reasonably quickly and at reasonable cost) it seems to me that following this line will inevitably result in resistance from the railway. It might (no certainty, but might) eventually succeed, but not without considerable investment of time, stress and money on the part of the OP.

I know that this point is flagged later in the post, but I really think it needs emphasising as to why (in my view) this would not be a good way forward.

 

[Venky124]

I know I have only quoted part of the post, but I would suggest that realistically this isn't good advice. On the assumption that the OP will want this matter to go away (reasonably quickly and at reasonable cost) it seems to me that following this line will inevitably result in resistance from the railway. It might (no certainty, but might) eventually succeed, but not without considerable investment of time, stress and money on the part of the OP.

I know that this point is flagged later in the post, but I really think it needs emphasising as to why (in my view) this would not be a good way forward.

I feel the same. Going that way involves stress, money and lots of time. I simply want a reasonable solution where I can come to terms with the rail company paying the outstanding fares and their admin fee and close this matter.

Could you please have a look at my drafted reply and give your suggestions if you have any? I'll reply to them and try to settle this matter.

 

[Haywain]

Could you please have a look at my drafted reply and give your suggestions if you have any?

I think the reply you have posted in post #66 above is really good. It reads well and sets out everything clearly without using unnecessarily flowery language.

 

[Venky124]

Hi Everyone,

I received an email today from Digital Fraud Team West Midlands Railway regarding the incident happended in December for which I have already received a letter from fare evasion team and paid the fine which you all already know from the previous discussions on this thread. Now, I have received this below email to my mail ID which is linked to the trainline app. I haven't given this email ID when I was stopped by the revenue officer on that day. So, I assume they took it from the trainline app and emailed me. I'm really worried whats gonna happen now. Please have a look at the email and help me to come out of this without being prosecuted.

Thank you

Update.

I have replied to them with what I have posted in post #66. They gave me the details of the journeys they have investigated which I have made and gave me the option to pay the outstanding fare and admin fee to close the case. The case is now closed.

Thanks to everyone who has assisted me in replying to them and getting an out-of-court settlement without involving the prosecution team.

 

[John R]

And thank you for letting us know the outcome. Glad it’s all sorted.