I'm an Alstom Engineer AMA

[Andy25]

I work at the new site in Widnes, happy to try and answer anyone's questions providing it isn't confidential.

All answers my own thoughts and not necessarily representative of Alstom.

Not going to respond to insults!

 

[jw]

Welcome. What work do you have at the moment and what's coming in the future?

 

[Andy25]

Welcome. What work do you have at the moment and what's coming in the future?

Thanks.

Our main project is of course painting the Pendolinos, this is mid life asset protection.

We are also now looking at repainting the class 175 for the new franchise, this will include some internal upgrades.

The rest is former Preston work, overhauling Northern Line motors and gearboxes (1700 of each!), Voyager motors and alternators, Piccadilly traction cases (73TS pneumatic controlled), VCB's for various fleets including IEP and Jevelin and various other electronics for various Alstom fleets.

Hopefully we'll being doing Hydrogen conversion of cl321, WCP Pendolino refresh and if we're lucky some new build work which would see the site expanded.

 

[Class455]

Welcome!
Any idea of what Pendolino is currently with you for repaint and what the next one due will be?

 

[6Gtraincrew]

We are also now looking at repainting the class 175 for the new franchise, this will include some internal upgrades.

Would these internal upgrades be charging points by any chance?

 

[Andy25]

Welcome!
Any idea of what Pendolino is currently with you for repaint and what the next one due will be?

Sorry not sure off the top of my head, I'm more involved with the ex Preston work.

 

[Andy25]

Would these internal upgrades be charging points by any chance?

I believe so yes

 

[anamyd]

I believe so yes

Long overdue, you've got to admit! (I know it's not your company's fault) - great idea for a thread!

 

[Andy25]

Long overdue, you've got to admit! (I know it's not your company's fault) - great idea for a thread!

Thanks! I'm looking forward to what we'll be asked to do with Pendolinos once a winner is selected for WCP. There was some great renders on Angels website but think they've gone now.

 

[matacaster]

Any chance you could fix the Class 180's for Hull Trains?

 

[anamyd]

Any chance you could fix the Class 180's for Hull Trains?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Any chance you could fix the Class 180's for Hull Trains?

Give the guy a break! He's an engineer, not a miracle worker! XD

 

[Andy25]

Any chance you could fix the Class 180's for Hull Trains?

180's has been a funny one, we hadn't been involved with them for many years and the reliability compared to the 175 was terrible. We signed a tech support contract a few years ago and applied many of the modifications we'd done to 175 to solve a lot of the issues but as always cost comes in to it and what the owner/operator is willing to pay.

At the moment as the future of the fleet is uncertain you won't have anyone willing to put their hands in their pockets to pay for upgrades as there is no guarantee of a return.

Which problems in particular are you thinking of?

 

[43096]

180's has been a funny one, we hadn't been involved with them for many years and the reliability compared to the 175 was terrible. We signed a tech support contract a few years ago and applied many of the modifications we'd done to 175 to solve a lot of the issues but as always cost comes in to it and what the owner/operator is willing to pay.

At the moment as the future of the fleet is uncertain you won't have anyone willing to put their hands in their pockets to pay for upgrades as there is no guarantee of a return.

Which problems in particular are you thinking of?

The endemic issues that were “built in” by Washwood Heath when Alstom built them!

 

[Andy25]

The endemic issues that were “built in” by Washwood Heath when Alstom built them!

Such as?

They were built before I joined but I'm aware from those involved that the Coradia fleets suffered because they were built to cost. Customers gave a low budget target and the only way to achieve it was to make compromises that Alstom wouldn't have normally made. Things like the level of corrosion protection on steel sections and not having air dryers on some pneumatic systems etc.

I would imagine knowing how it has affected our reputation on those fleets we would refuse to compromise if asked to do the same again.

It's probably cost the owners more in maintenance than they actually saved over the properly spec'd design.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

You talk like you have had quite a bit to do with the 175's.

Do you know why did so many have fire / overheating issues and why couldn't it be solved?

 

[Andy25]

You talk like you have had quite a bit to do with the 175's.

Do you know why did so many have fire / overheating issues and why couldn't it be solved?

I think some of it is to do with how tightly packed some of the equipment rafts are, there isn't much room for airflow in some areas. The heat wash over the alternator powering the auxiliaries is something like 60 degrees and the rating was difficult to achieve based on the engine rpm driving it.

 

[Chris172]

Does alstom have dealing with XC voyagers as they are screaming for an internal upgrade!

 

[Andy25]

Does alstom have dealing with XC voyagers as they are screaming for an internal upgrade!

The cl22x are bombardier vehicles but with an Alstom traction package so we only deal with the traction cases, alternators and motors. We did quote for the external re-paint prototype but nothing on the internals.

I would wager it will depend on whether they feature in the plans of future franchises.

Being pure diesel they have a more limited appeal to franchises.

 

[43096]

Such as?

They were built before I joined but I'm aware from those involved that the Coradia fleets suffered because they were built to cost. Customers gave a low budget target and the only way to achieve it was to make compromises that Alstom wouldn't have normally made. Things like the level of corrosion protection on steel sections and not having air dryers on some pneumatic systems etc.

I would imagine knowing how it has affected our reputation on those fleets we would refuse to compromise if asked to do the same again.

It's probably cost the owners more in maintenance than they actually saved over the properly spec'd design.

You've described some of it subsequently in terms of the underframe equipment layout, built also things like routings of pipes and cables mean a very maintenance unfriendly design. Shame, as the above floor bit is very nice.

The biggest issue in terms of cost was not customer driven but by Alstom HQ in France. It is well known that at the time Alstom demanded a substantial saving (25-30% from memory) from all its suppliers. The only way that will be achieved is by cutting quality - and it shows.

 

[Erniescooper]

You talk like you have had quite a bit to do with the 175's.

Do you know why did so many have fire / overheating issues and why couldn't it be solved?

There was a fire at Preston that was caused by a leaking transmission hose spraying straight onto the exhaust. The fire at Prestatyn was a fan motor bearing that failed and misted oil ignited. The original brake/disc pad arrangement would collect leaves and run at a temperature that the leaves would ignite and spray them around the under frame until something caught fire. The 400v wiring back from the alternator in original form was poorly routed and installed and would rub together until it eventually arced and burned. There have been a couple of fires with starter motors and even one where a windscreen went up! Most of the causes have modified out but you never really get away from poor build quality at build as 43096 points out which was caused by a program between being designed and built that was called Stretch 30

 

[anamyd]

There was a fire at Preston that was caused by a leaking transmission hose spraying straight onto the exhaust. The fire at Prestatyn was a fan motor bearing that failed and misted oil ignited. The original brake/disc pad arrangement would collect leaves and run at a temperature that the leaves would ignite and spray them around the under frame until something caught fire. The 400v wiring back from the alternator in original form was poorly routed and installed and would rub together until it eventually arced and burned. There have been a couple of fires with starter motors and even one where a windscreen went up! Most of the causes have modified out but you never really get away from poor build quality at build as 43096 points out which was caused by a program between being designed and built that was called Stretch 30

what about the Manchester Piccadilly and Shrewsbury 175 fires...?

 

[Erniescooper]

what about the Manchester Piccadilly and Shrewsbury 175 fires...?

Piccadilly and the first Shrewsbury were both starter motors but my recollection of the second Shrewsbury was just the fire bottles going off. The Piccadilly one was only really small and took a couple of days to fix but wreaked havoc because it was tea time on a Friday and it was on Platform 14 and the Fire Brigade came out and isolated the overhead for whole station. There was also an engine fire at Calveley but nobody ever got to the root cause.

 

[Andy25]

You guys know more than me about 175! I have heard many people speak in hushed tones about the stretch 30 initiative, it certainly didn't stick round for long. Though the Northern and Jubilee line trains seem to have better reliability.

 

[anamyd]

what did Stretch 30 involve...?

 

[43096]

what did Stretch 30 involve...?

Cutting costs by 30% essentially.

 

[Andy25]

Cutting costs by 30% essentially.

Yes from what I understand it was a drive to reduce costs by 30% across the board.

 

[anamyd]

Gotcha guys, thanks

 

[anamyd]

Andy25 have you seen this thread...? https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/alstom-onix-traction-system.177784/ Maybe you could introduce yourself on there...?

 

[Llama]

The 180s put out a crazy amount of heat. In the bad winters ten years ago you could tell where a 180 had stopped at a station by the five (or sometimes fewer if there was an engine or two isolated!) big regular patches where all snow had melted away in 10' by 4' areas.