"I'm stranded and I just need £x to get home!"

[LTJ87]

Passing through Clapham Junction station recently I saw a lady approaching numerous passengers and recounting her terribly unfortunate tale of how she was stranded and all she needed was a mere £6 to reach her final destination. If only someone passing through Clapham Junction at rush hour would be so kind to dig into their pockets.

This was interesting as she was in exactly the same circumstances at Clapham Junction two weeks ago, and at Clapham Common underground station another two weeks before.

So, as a hypothetical question, if someone was genuinely stranded and for whatever reason had not purchased a return ticket, had no bank card nor anyone to call on to arrange to get home, and all they short of a few pounds to buy a ticket home, would the ticketing staff leave them stranded?

Or could they pay what they can and, upon production of ID and a name and address, agree to pay the balance afterwards?

 

[island]

The lady in question is unlikely to have needed to go anywhere, nor to be especially short of money, as you know. In my opinion, such people should be prosecuted for obtaining property by deception, or whatever the offence is called.

In the event of a genuine case, it would be dealt with on a case by case basis. An Unpaid Fare Notice could be issued if the passenger could produce satisfactory evidence of ID – but this would be 100% at the discretion of the railway staff.

 

[najaB]

So, as a hypothetical question, if someone was genuinely stranded and for whatever reason had not purchased a return ticket, had no bank card nor anyone to call on to arrange to get home, and all they short of a few pounds to buy a ticket home, would the ticketing staff leave them stranded?

Or could they pay what they can and, upon production of ID and a name and address, agree to pay the balance afterwards?

Technically they should leave the passenger stranded, the railway is a business not a public service. In reality, if the passenger seemed genuine I imagine they would arrange with the guard on the appropriate service to let the passenger buy the closest ticket they could afford and then over-ride to their destination. Or issue an UPFN.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

.....So, as a hypothetical question, if someone was genuinely stranded and for whatever reason had not purchased a return ticket, had no bank card nor anyone to call on to arrange to get home, and all they short of a few pounds to buy a ticket home, would the ticketing staff leave them stranded?....

The ticket office are under no obligation here, however, that does not mean they can't help in some way. They might offer to phone a friend of the passenger, or a member of their family, to see if they can help out. I have been known to help out 'regular' passengers when they are short of the fare, by lending them the difference (to be repaid on their next visit), or just let them off the difference (if it is a small amount).

....Or could they pay what they can and, upon production of ID and a name and address, agree to pay the balance afterwards?

They only way of doing that sort of thing is a UFN and only guards and Revenue Protection staff have that option.

 

[richw]

In a genuine case there is potentially a duty of care if the person could be considered vulnerable.
Case by case basis.
From your description I think we have a beggar

 

[Failed Unit]

It is amazing how such a person changes their tune if you offer to go to the ticket machine and buy it rather then given then cash...

 

[Harlan Cage]

It is amazing how such a person changes their tune if you offer to go to the ticket machine and buy it rather then given then cash...

You bet!

HC

 

[tsr]

There is also the SILK process (Stranded Individual Location Known) - which has been publicised a little more by TOCs recently, in fact. This involves a stranded person getting a ticket office to authorise a payment for one of a limited selection of fares. This payment comes from someone they know who goes and visits another National Rail ticket office to sort out the payment. Some TOCs can opt to charge a "reasonable" admin fee for this.

It's amazing, though, how often people who claim to have been otherwise "stranded" and travelling between two major locations have absolutely nobody they could possibly have called to help them pay, nor any way they could possibly even have thought to ask staff at their origin station. And how relaxed they are about having to suddenly make a 70-minute journey with absolutely no money on their person and no alternative transport to hand...

 

[najaB]

There is also the SILK process...

In the situation the OP proposed "...if someone was genuinely stranded and for whatever reason had not purchased a return ticket, had no bank card nor anyone to call on to arrange to get home...", the SILK process wouldn't be an option. It is good to know that TOCs are making an effort to let people know that it exists though.

 

[richw]

There is also the SILK process (Stranded Individual Location Known) - which has been publicised a little more by TOCs recently, in fact. This involves a stranded person getting a ticket office to authorise a payment for one of a limited selection of fares. This payment comes from someone they know who goes and visits another National Rail ticket office to sort out the payment. Some TOCs can opt to charge a "reasonable" admin fee for this.

It's amazing, though, how often people who claim to have been otherwise "stranded" and travelling between two major locations have absolutely nobody they could possibly have called to help them pay, nor any way they could possibly even have thought to ask staff at their origin station. And how relaxed they are about having to suddenly make a 70-minute journey with absolutely no money on their person and no alternative transport to hand...

I would probably have someone I could phone but would be very slim chance of them getting to an open ticket office. That's the reality of being from a rural area with unmanned stations.

 

[tsr]

In the situation the OP proposed "...if someone was genuinely stranded and for whatever reason had not purchased a return ticket, had no bank card nor anyone to call on to arrange to get home...", the SILK process wouldn't be an option. It is good to know that TOCs are making an effort to let people know that it exists though.

I was more reading it as if they could not call upon anyone to transport them by a means other than the railway. Probably my mistake!

I would probably have someone I could phone but would be very slim chance of them getting to an open ticket office. That's the reality of being from a rural area with unmanned stations.

That's a tricky one and almost certainly really relies on the discretion of staff at some point. I would actually recommend using any available help point, as these often seem to be the source of internal messages about travellers at unstaffed stations having severe ticketing issues, and thus fairly reliable if you can get the person at the other end to understand the situation.

 

[najaB]

I was more reading it as if they could not call upon anyone to transport them by a means other than the railway. Probably my mistake!

No, I can see how it reads that way too. Good that you brought up the SILK process though.

 

[tsr]

No, I can see how it reads that way too. Good that you brought up the SILK process though.

It's always worth mentioning it! If more passengers were aware it would prevent a lot of panicking. Rumours of it do occasionally seem to spread amongst passengers, but there's still not enough publicity, really. It's not like it's all that easy to take advantage of.

 

[CyrusWuff]

For the avoidance of doubt, the only tickets available under a SILK arrangement are Anytime and Anytime Day Singles (SOS/SDS) for immediate travel, with Railcard or Child discount if applicable, and a £10 admin fee applies.

So if, for example, someone was stuck in London and needed to get to Birmingham, you'd be looking at £58 on London Midland, £74 on Chiltern or £94 on Virgin (all including admin fee).

An alternative (cheaper!) option would be to buy an eVoucher to the value of the ticket through one of the WebTIS-powered sites that offers them, use that to buy the ticket (either by giving the "stranded" passenger the code so they can do it on their account, or directly) and then collect it from the Ticket Office (assuming it's open and can do ToD) or ticket machine using any magstripe card (even a Tesco Clubcard works!)

 

[Flamingo]

If somebody is genuinely stranded, there is the SILK process already mentioned. In my experience, however, the vast majority of stranded destitute passengers get VERY distressed at somebody telling them that they will have to pay for their journey at all...

There are a lot of people out there who view the railway as a free ride. Why should the railway have any more of a duty of care to these people than the local Police, Social Services or the taxi-driver outside the station?

 

[Failed Unit]

If somebody is genuinely stranded, there is the SILK process already mentioned. In my experience, however, the vast majority of stranded destitute passengers get VERY distressed at somebody telling them that they will have to pay for their journey at all...

There are a lot of people out there who view the railway as a free ride. Why should the railway have any more of a duty of care to these people than the local Police, Social Services or the taxi-driver outside the station?

Very true, normally on the routes I use a return is about 20p more than the single. But I have heard some "lost my return ticket" which could be of course genuine. I did have that happen myself once and asked the railway staff, the solution was only buy a new ticket which I had to take on the chin. I guess that could have presented a problem if I had no means to pay. (the outward was taken by the barrier as it should be - so I only had a collection receipt, from the railways point of view how did they know I handn't given the return to someone one)

But in the parallel with taxi's asking before you get in if they can go via a cash machine is normally more favourable than doing it once you are moving. A taxi drive once said that they also get a feeling between a genuine the cash machine isn't working near you, to the chancer.

 

[PermitToTravel]

It is amazing how such a person changes their tune if you offer to go to the ticket machine and buy it rather then given then cash...

They could let you buy them a ticket and then take it to the ticket office for a refund, though. If you think someone is a beggar rather than someone genuinely in trouble then it's best to not engage them at all

 

[30907]

They could let you buy them a ticket and then take it to the ticket office for a refund, though. If you think someone is a beggar rather than someone genuinely in trouble then it's best to not engage them at all

Which is why on the rare occasions I have offered to do this (with callers, which go with my job) I would
(1) agree to meet client at the station 30 minutes later, or whatever might be convenient. Discouragement factor 70%, cost to me a pleasant walk.
(2) pay by credit card.
Discouragement factor 20%.

Mind you, there's a guy out Filey way who owes me - am I surprised?

 

[LTJ87]

Thanks for the replies all.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It is amazing how such a person changes their tune if you offer to go to the ticket machine and buy it rather then given then cash...

Not always. I had a beggar waving an Oyster at me at Warren Street last week, and when I pointed out I had no change she suggested I use my debit card to top up her Oyster. Er, no.

I don't know what she called me when I said no, but it was Romanian for something rude I'm sure.

 

[cuccir]

I recently used a SILK purchase to get someone home and the whole thing worked smoothly, though think it smoothed the process that both stations and the train itself were operated by the same TOC.

 

[LowLevel]

I did have an issue come up once whereby a booking office was closed at the end where the person needing to pay for another person's silk was. Control were surprisingly inventive and rang me to ask me to sell the person an appropriate ticket from my Avantix and give it to them, then ring them back to confirm it had been sold and allow them to contact the station at the other end to give a letter and send them on their way. Sensible use of available resources (ie a passing guard with a ticket machine and a company phone!).

 

[Camden]

I would put money on it that any genuine person who is stranded (wallet nicked or whatever) would be easily distinguishable as genuine and found at the ticket desk talking to train staff (probably asking to use a phone rather than a free ride) and not wandering platforms and concourses asking for money from strangers.

I would put further money on it that those wandering platforms & concourses asking for cash are mainly either going to walk away after a "days work" or have a perfectly topped up Oyster in their pocket to get the tube home. I agree that these people should be prosecuted for deception, and indeed I believe some have.

 

[Mojo]

For the avoidance of doubt, the only tickets available under a SILK arrangement are Anytime and Anytime Day Singles (SOS/SDS) for immediate travel, with Railcard or Child discount if applicable, and a £10 admin fee applies.

For the record, Southeastern do not charge an admin fee.

 

[talltim]

The ones that make me laugh are those that need 20p for their bus. get off earlier and walk!

 

[Polarbear]

Years ago, someone asked me for £1 towards their train fare to London whilst on the concourse at Liverpool lime street. At the time, the coach station was opposite & the "gentleman" had a few choice words to say when I directed him over the road on the grounds that it would be cheaper by coach...!

Not to be too cynical, but if this individual had been genuine, I would have happily bought a hat & scoffed it down!

 

[Mutant Lemming]

The ones that make me laugh are those that need 20p for their bus. get off earlier and walk!

At least in London that is no longer a reason to cadge - one of the few advantages of having cashless buses. They just ask for train fare or money for a coffee instead.

 

[sheff1]

The ones that make me laugh are those that need 20p for their bus. get off earlier and walk!

Had one the other day who was literally running back & forth across the road (so no mobility problems ) to accost anyone who arrived at one of the 6 bus stops with 'I need £1.50 for a bus fare to get home'. The distance he covered whilst I was there would probably have got him as far as a £1.50 fare would take him !

 

[WelshBluebird]

At least in London that is no longer a reason to cadge - one of the few advantages of having cashless buses. They just ask for train fare or money for a coffee instead.

I had someone asking for cash for a bus in London a few weeks ago. Talk about giving yourself away!