Imagine if all of this had happened in 1980?

[PTR 444]

Having to stay at home is hard enough without being able to see your friends, but luckily the invention of social media and smartphones have enabled us to continue seeing each other while we remain indoors, just spare a thought though for people who do not have access to this technology, and that would have been the case for everyone had it happened 40 years ago.

A hypothetical scenario where Covid-19 took place in 1980 would have seen it emerge at the dawn of the Thatcher era, before the miners strikes which dominated the decade. Could it have accelerated technological development including that of mobile phones? Could it have had a bigger economic impact then than it would now? Where would we be today had Covid-19 happened 40 years ago?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Also imagine what it would be like during the Spanish Flu in 1918 - the only contact with others by letter?

While we are unlucky that it happened, we are tremendously lucky that we are living through it in an era where most people have the ability to speak to anyone they normally would via technology. I've often said "videoconferencing is a solution looking for a problem" - well, the problem just arrived.

 

[bramling]

Having to stay at home is hard enough without being able to see your friends, but luckily the invention of social media and smartphones have enabled us to continue seeing each other while we remain indoors, just spare a thought though for people who do not have access to this technology, and that would have been the case for everyone had it happened 40 years ago.

A hypothetical scenario where Covid-19 took place in 1980 would have seen it emerge at the dawn of the Thatcher era, before the miners strikes which dominated the decade. Could it have accelerated technological development including that of mobile phones? Could it have had a bigger economic impact then than it would now? Where would we be today had Covid-19 happened 40 years ago?

I suspect lack of social media might have had a more positive influence - less misinformation or agenda-loaded material floating around. Probably a little more respect for authority too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect of social media might have had a more positive influence - less misinformation or agenda-loaded material floating around. Probably a little more respect for authority too.

Yes, being before the era of "fake news" would have helped. Though the Press were not as responsible as back in 1918.

 

[bramling]

Yes, being before the era of "fake news" would have helped. Though the Press were not as responsible as back in 1918.

I suspect most people would have been getting their info from the BBC.

Whether that’s a good thing or not is a matter for debate!

 

[Peter Sarf]

I suspect most people would have been getting their info from the BBC.

Whether that’s a good thing or not is a matter for debate!

The spread of a virus might not have been so bad in 1980 with less international travel. Certainly in 1918 it must have been very hard for the virus to get across the world. Mind you the information on a virus would have travelled slower as well so maybe we are at an advantage there.

 

[Domh245]

The spread of a virus might not have been so bad in 1980 with less international travel. Certainly in 1918 it must have been very hard for the virus to get across the world. Mind you the information on a virus would have travelled slower as well so maybe we are at an advantage there.

More difficult perhaps, but not exactly hard to spread a virus when you've got millions of young men being sent from across the world to a handful of locations where it was very easily spread (and then some returning home and spreading it amongst other populations)

 

[Peter Sarf]

More difficult perhaps, but not exactly hard to spread a virus when you've got millions of young men being sent from across the world to a handful of locations where it was very easily spread (and then some returning home and spreading it amongst other populations)

I know what you mean. The second world war would have been ideal for virus spreading. For the first war I wonder how much travel went on beyond the European continent ?.

I am assuming the Flu n 1918 originated in China ?. I also seem to recall that Germany was getting hit quite badly and this influenced their need to surrender.

 

[Domh245]

I know what you mean. The second world war would have been ideal for virus spreading. For the first war I wonder how much travel went on beyond the European continent ?.

I am assuming the Flu n 1918 originated in China ?. I also seem to recall that Germany was getting hit quite badly and this influenced their need to surrender.

Several hypothesised 'patient zero's for the 1918 outbreak including China, the UK and the US, but none conclusively proven. There was plenty of travel beyond Europe as well - by 1918 the US were sending men to France, but don't forget that it only takes one person to introduce a virus to a new location before it spreads - and there were a lot of belligerents in WW1 (as well as bits of empires left, so travel wasn't exactly limited)

 

[Carlisle]

Could it have accelerated technological development

It would’ve rapidly created a huge expansion in telephone ordering of goods, which if I recall, wasn’t a major industry outside those well established catalogue brands many of us remember.

 

[C J Snarzell]

The are two arguments to say that this epidemic could have been managed positively and negatively 40 years ago.

The use of social media has been a vital tool in allowing every one to communicate and work from home. It's key role has been delivering key news & reinforcing the fact we need to stay home, save lives and protect the NHS. Unfortunately, back in 1980 this would have been absent and therefore people would have struggled to muddle through each day and make vital connections with one another.

On the flip side of the coin, in 1980 we had a much smaller percentage of scumbags in our population than we see now. By this I'm talking about the pond life who have completely ignored all advise about the lockdown and seem intent to do what they want when they want and abuse the police in doing so. I feel that we had a much more respectful society than we do now. Police and courts were feared and respected more back then.

For me Covid19 has seen both the very best and the very worst of human beings in this country. From the 99-year-old war hero raising millions for charity to the specimens threatening to cough and spit at police officers.

CJ

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect most people would have been getting their info from the BBC.

Whether that’s a good thing or not is a matter for debate!

I think the Beeb have done quite well, to be honest. I find between them and the Grauniad I'm getting decent coverage, if anything sounds a bit off just cross-check against gov.uk.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On the flip side of the coin, in 1980 we had a much smaller percentage of scumbags in our population than we see now. By this I'm talking about the pond life who have completely ignored all advise about the lockdown and seem intent to do what they want when they want and abuse the police in doing so. I feel that we had a much more respectful society than we do now. Police and courts were feared and respected more back then.

You reckon? I reckon the opposite to be honest. I think to get back to the halcyon days of which you talk you'd need to go back to before the 1960s.

 

[greyman42]

There would not of been any multi channels from Sky TV or Freeview so the amount of entertainment on television would of been minimal compared to today. If the video rental shops were allowed to stay open they would have done a roaring trade.

 

[MotCO]

I'm not sure how the NHS would have coped in 1980. There may have been less technology - would they have had so many ventilators and ICUs as today? Would survival rates be as good as they are today? The A&E departments (as they were called then) and GPs were not under such pressure as they are today, so they may be better able to cope?

 

[CaptainHaddock]

40 years ago there was far less international travel and far less migration from the East to the West so chances are the virus would not have spread to the UK in the first place!

 

[edwin_m]

I know what you mean. The second world war would have been ideal for virus spreading. For the first war I wonder how much travel went on beyond the European continent ?.

I am assuming the Flu n 1918 originated in China ?. I also seem to recall that Germany was getting hit quite badly and this influenced their need to surrender.

There were lots more movements than just in Europe. The Americans have been mentioned but there were also troops from various parts of the British Empire fighting on the Western Front, and probably various other major movements of people around the world.

In 1980 an outbreak of Covid might have spread less quickly initially because there was much less international travel, particularly to and from China. But I suspect authorities locally and worldwide would have been aware of it less quickly, because the Chinese state was less technically advanced and probably even more secretive than it is today. Once it got a foothold in a society like the UK it would probably have spread more quickly, because we didn't have the technology to allow society to continue in any form with a high degree of distancing, and society as a whole was less intrinsically isolating then than now.

So I think the disease would just have run its course with a large number of deaths - there were fewer elderly people then but I guess more with underlying medical conditions from lives spent in various heavy industries. But with more people remembering the actuality of WW2 rather than their imagining of it, and essentially no real alternative course of action available for people to consider and propose, I believe society would have emerged in moreorless the same form as before.

 

[MotCO]

the Chinese state was less technically advanced and probably even more secretive than it is today.

When did China become more open? I remember when glasnost happened in Russia, but can't think when China became 'westernised'. If Coronavirus occurred when China was 'closed', it may not have spread.

 

[js1000]

Having to stay at home is hard enough without being able to see your friends, but luckily the invention of social media and smartphones have enabled us to continue seeing each other while we remain indoors, just spare a thought though for people who do not have access to this technology, and that would have been the case for everyone had it happened 40 years ago.

A hypothetical scenario where Covid-19 took place in 1980 would have seen it emerge at the dawn of the Thatcher era, before the miners strikes which dominated the decade. Could it have accelerated technological development including that of mobile phones? Could it have had a bigger economic impact then than it would now? Where would we be today had Covid-19 happened 40 years ago?

If we had this in 1980 in some ways it would have been easier. The amount of misinformation on Twitter and Facebook has been an absolute joke. In many cases the mainstream media have irresponsibly gone along with reports heard on the internet and asking them to politicians.

Even if you wanted to say something like "circa 100,000 deaths versus millions upon millions of other problems such unemployment, mental problems, suicides, illness, abused women, starving children, evictions etc" you can't. Apparently that's evil and we must save every single life because it's a numbers game.

I don't believe the above is an irrational argument. In three months time when unemployment skyrockets in the millions we may be in a position that this strategy of shutting down everything was unwise. Former supreme court judge Lord Sumption put it really well a couple of weeks ago that we appear to so afraid of death, no one even asks whether this 'cure' is actually worse. So true.

As others have, globalisation was only in its infancy and international travel was nowhere near the level it is now - this outbreak would have not occurred on such a global scale.

 

[stevetay3]

Back in 1980 we would have probably just got on with it.No social media to distort the facts and increase fear, a government far wiser than we have now Thatcher excluded. Plus no nanny state making decisions for us all

 

[scotrail158713]

Back in 1980 we would have probably just got on with it.No social media to distort the facts and increase fear, a government far wiser than we have now Thatcher excluded. Plus no nanny state making decisions for us all

Have you got some rose-tinted spectacles on?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Even if you wanted to say something like "circa 100,000 deaths versus millions upon millions of other problems such unemployment, mental problems, suicides, illness, abused women, starving children, evictions etc" you can't. Apparently that's evil and we must save every single life because it's a numbers game.

If you knew anything at all about the UK's relatively loose lockdown compared with say Spain's much stricter one, you would know that that is not what is happening.

The UK is allowing some spread to occur to avoid locking down more. This will mean slightly more deaths than a stricter approach. The key is keeping the number of people requiring the various types of hospital treatment within the number of those facilities the NHS has available. If it ever goes over that, then lots more people die because there are no facilities for them.

 

[37424]

40 years ago there was far less international travel and far less migration from the East to the West so chances are the virus would not have spread to the UK in the first place!

Indeed and generally people didn't travel locally as far for work, shopping or leisure etc. If unfortunately it had got here in 1980 then I imagine the NHS would have struggled to cope with less knowledge and technology, although we might have been able to get more PPE in the UK as we still had more manufacturing then, and I think that's a lesson for the future rather than relying making stuff in the cheapest wage economy you can find.

Of course economically the country was very poor in 1980 we had the winter in discontent in 79 I was eighteen at the time nearly everybody was on strike it was total shambles so i imagine the economic damage would have been greater. But of course we did have TV, radio, Newspapers and landline phones so we weren't totally in the dark ages and I doubt it would have had any effect on mobile phones, a large driver to any electronic gadget that we have today have been the gradual development and improvement of integrated circuit technology and a lot of the ideas for developing something along the lines of todays mobile phone network came about in the early 80's anyway.

I think a lot of todays generation seem to think we can not manage without social media, well we can and even without the internet or mobile phones we seemed to manage in 1980. Oh and I forgot the 1980's version of the internet Ceefax/Teletext

 

[Peter Sarf]

I'm not sure how the NHS would have coped in 1980. There may have been less technology - would they have had so many ventilators and ICUs as today? Would survival rates be as good as they are today? The A&E departments (as they were called then) and GPs were not under such pressure as they are today, so they may be better able to cope?

I expect the NHS was not such a 'lean' (i.e. under-resourced) organisation n the 1980s. So probably a bit more slack available for a crisis.

Indeed and generally people didn't travel locally as far for work, shopping or leisure etc. If unfortunately it had got here in 1980 then I imagine the NHS would have struggled to cope with less knowledge and technology, although we might have been able to get more PPE in the UK as we still had more manufacturing then, and I think that's a lesson for the future rather than relying making stuff in the cheapest wage economy you can find.

Of course economically the country was very poor in 1980 we had the winter in discontent in 79 I was eighteen at the time nearly everybody was on strike it was total shambles so i imagine the economic damage would have been greater. But of course we did have TV, radio, Newspapers and landline phones so we weren't totally in the dark ages and I doubt it would have had any effect on mobile phones, a large driver to any electronic gadget that we have today have been the gradual development and improvement of integrated circuit technology and a lot of the ideas for developing something along the lines of todays mobile phone network came about in the early 80's anyway.

I think a lot of todays generation seem to think we can not manage without social media, well we can and even without the internet or mobile phones we seemed to manage in 1980. Oh and I forgot the 1980's version of the internet Ceefax/Teletext

Oh yes. I remember the three day week and we had planned power-cuts for weeks/months in the (early ?) 70s. I was doing my A Levels and it was a grim time watching unemployment rise in my home town.

As for social media. In those days the 'one eyed god' * was taking over family life, all four channels of it iirc.

* = Television.

 

[Iskra]

I don't think the Government would have bailed out the country 40 years ago, agreeing to pay a lot of people's wages.

 

[DarloRich]

Was there not an article about this on the BBC website recently?

 

[matt]

Was there not an article about this on the BBC website recently?

There was a similar article but it referred to 2005

 

[lyndhurst25]

In 1980 the UK much more manufacturing industry that could have made PPE, many more hospital beds (including all the huge psychiatric hospitals) and military hospitals that could have been turned over to caring for covid patients, and the full Cold War civil defence (remember "Protect and Survive"?) infrastructure in place. I think that we'd have coped pretty well.

 

[Meerkat]

On the flip side of the coin, in 1980 we had a much smaller percentage of scumbags in our population than we see now. By this I'm talking about the pond life who have completely ignored all advise about the lockdown and seem intent to do what they want when they want and abuse the police in doing so. I feel that we had a much more respectful society than we do now. Police and courts were feared and respected more back then.

I think you (and most of us) have changed more than the level of scumbaggery!
We get older, we get less tolerant. Also in the eighties you would never have known about most of the things you complain about - it wouldn’t make the papers and there was no social media to spread OUTRAGE!
Hasn‘t crime gone down massively since the 80’s, widely linked to the end of leaded petrol?

 

[DarloRich]

There was a similar article but it referred to 2005

thanks!