Inconsistent travel journeys

[nomad225678]

I've been contacted by someone appearing to be from a trainline company regarding inconsistent travel journeys.

They want to work with me to resolve the issue, I don't know if it's a scam could anyone help me?

 

[island]

Please post up the details of the communication you received, omitting any personally identifiable information.

 

[Titfield]

Do you mean "Trainline" (a retailer of rail tickets) or a specific Train Operating Company for example GWR ?

This forum knows that some Train Operating Companies are carrying out data trawls to identify potential fare evasion.

Trainline cooperates with these companies in providing booking data.

 

[WesternLancer]

I've been contacted by someone appearing to be from a trainline company regarding inconsistent travel journeys.

They want to work with me to resolve the issue, I don't know if it's a scam could anyone help me?

chances are it's probably not a scam - but do not reply to them (or even acknowledge the e-mail) before getting advice here on what to do.

You have to think if you may have done something that could give rise to suspicion with rail fares - eg buying tickets for journeys shorter than you have actually travelled, refunding tickets you have actually used, buying tickets on line when on the train after the train has left your boarding station, buying tickets with railcard discounts when you don't have a railcard etc, re-using tickets more then once if they have not been checked / scanned at barriers or on the train.

All of those are potential ticketing offences that they might be investigating.

 

[nomad225678]

They have asked for my details asking for dob name and address for GDPR purposes I have responded saying I am not comfortable sharing that information as it might be a scam?

Many thanks for getting in contact.



Due to GDPR regulations, and to ensure that we are corresponding with the correct individual associated with the account in question, I kindly request that you complete the form below:

First Name(s)
Surname
Date of Birth
Contact number(s)
Email
Address
Postcode

Once I receive these details, I can address any concerns you may have, provide you with the evidence we currently hold, discuss your travel patterns with you and work towards resolving this issue.

If you would like to discuss this with me over the phone before submitting your information, please contact me on the number below.

 

[James H]

To give you help, we really need to know the name of the organisation that has contacted you.

 

[nomad225678]

To give you help, we really need to know the name of the organisation that has contacted you.

South western

 

[jfollows]

As requested already, people here want to help you but first of all you need to help yourself by providing more information. What exactly have you received? We can’t advise by guesswork, we need to know something first of all in order to help you properly.

But do not reply to South western for now.

 

[Titfield]

It is highly unlikely to be a scam. Without further information we can not advise on what the best course of action is. One general point though is that if you do travel by SWR and have contravened the fares regulations then you are at risk of action being taken against you if you do not respond.

Please provide as much information as you can se we may give you the best advice.

 

[AlterEgo]

Just to clarify, you’ve not been stopped by the company while travelling?

 

[nomad225678]

I regularly travel from Vauxhall to Waterloo and back to A different station
This is because I get a lift in the morning. I use trainline to purchase those tickets.
This is the only reason I can think of as it looks like short faring. But it's genuine travel.


I got this email out of the blue:
Following a review of industry data, I have noticed potential inconsistencies in your ticket purchase history, which leads me to believe that you are not paying the correct fare for journeys made on the UK rail network.



This activity has been highlighted as potentially fraudulent.



This is viewed as a serious issue, and I have taken this step to contact you, with a view to resolving this matter with you.

No I got an email out of the blue

Just to clarify, you’ve not been stopped by the company while travelling?

 

[Titfield]

Asked and answered. Travelling from a to b, but back from b to c will always give rise to suspicion particularly if one of the stations is unbarriered.

Your choice of action is (a) ignore it as they have no evidence of wrong doing and it is up to them to prove wrong doing (b) answer them with your explanation.

If you choose (a) please note their emails will become ever more strident until you do respond.

 

[nomad225678]

Asked and answered. Travelling from a to b, but back from b to c will always give rise to suspicion particularly if one of the stations is unbarriered.

Your choice of action is (a) ignore it as they have no evidence of wrong doing and it is up to them to prove wrong doing (b) answer them with your explanation.

If you choose (a) please note their emails will become ever more strident until you do respond.

Would you recommend b) to hear their concerns and accusations?
I fear scaremongering and baiting myself if i respond: also with personal information about myself.

 

[Titfield]

Their concern will be that you are short faring ie not paying the full fare.

Your explanation would be more convincing (and more likely to be accepted) if you could provide some form of proof of its truthfulness. (I note that this is a form of reversing the burden of proof but it is the best way to get this matter resolved).

EDIT They may wonder why you cant get a lift in the evening.

 

[SouthernOne]

If you are travelling from Vauxhall in the morning, make sure you’re scanning your QR code in on the barriers, as this information is recorded! Don’t ask staff to let you through, make sure going forward that every ticket is scanned. Then you have a record of starting your journey at the correct location.

 

[ikcdab]

If you are completely certain that you have done nothing wrong, then I would write back to them explaining the situation and (if possible) including some form of evidence such as a Google timeline printout or a statement from the person who gives you a lift in the morning. Also, as above, ensure you always scan in at Vauxhall.

 

[AlterEgo]

I regularly travel from Vauxhall to Waterloo and back to A different station
This is because I get a lift in the morning.

What is the "different station" here? It's very relevant to how believable this line of events is, especially as they have likely audited your Vauxhall tickets and found them to be unscanned at Vauxhall. Also, it's unusual to buy an online ticket from Vauxhall to Waterloo - contactless/Oyster is easier and cheaper in most use cases, but that of course relies on you tapping in at Vauxhall.

 

[pedr]

Do you always purchase a ticket well before boarding the train in Vauxhall? If you are confident you have never set foot on a train or in a compulsory ticket area prior to purchasing a ticket and having that available/delivered to your email and app, then it may be appropriate to be direct in your response simply asserting that you are certain that you haven’t committed any ticketing offences. But you should probably be sure of your position before doing that.

 

[talldave]

This may be a subject for a separate thread but I've looked at Trainline's T's & C's and I can't see where it's customers agree to having their business transactions with Trainline being passed to TOCs and other random companies. Is this legal?

For the OP, don't reply. I would also be taking my ticket business elsewhere and telling Trainline exactly what I think of their business practices. Maybe time to get @blackbeltbarrister on board?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

This may be a subject for a separate thread but I've looked at Trainline's T's & C's and I can't see where it's customers agree to having their business transactions with Trainline being passed to TOCs and other random companies. Is this legal?

Think it may well be in Trainline's privacy policy, which states that "...We may also share your personal data with travel operators to prevent and detect fraud against either you, Trainline or the travel operator..."

Privacy Policy | Trainline

When you use our services, you're trusting us with your information. This Privacy Policy will inform you as to how we look after your personal data.

www.thetrainline.com

See in particular the sub-section half way down about 'Third Parties' and, within that, 'Travel Operators (rail, coach and bus)'

 

[Titfield]

This may be a subject for a separate thread but I've looked at Trainline's T's & C's and I can't see where it's customers agree to having their business transactions with Trainline being passed to TOCs and other random companies. Is this legal?

For the OP, don't reply. I would also be taking my ticket business elsewhere and telling Trainline exactly what I think of their business practices. Maybe time to get @blackbeltbarrister on board?

Providing information for the detection and prevention of crime is permitted under GDPR. This has been queried on a number of occasions.

 

[talldave]

Providing information for the detection and prevention of crime is permitted under GDPR. This has been queried on a number of occasions.

But innocent passengers are being falsely accused using that information. That's wrong.

Basically you're saying no information can be private because there could be criminal activity associated with anything.

 

[WesternLancer]

But innocent passengers are being falsely accused using that information. That's wrong.

Basically you're saying no information can be private because there could be criminal activity associated with anything.

That’s the uk for you.

But thus risks going off topic which does not help the op

 

[island]

I regularly travel from Vauxhall to Waterloo and back to A different station
This is because I get a lift in the morning. I use trainline to purchase those tickets.
This is the only reason I can think of as it looks like short faring. But it's genuine travel.

If this proceeds to court, I presume you will be able to call as a witness the person who gives you lifts and they will testify under oath and penalty of perjury that they take you in their car on that journey regularly?

I presume the records will show that the tickets have been scanned to enter the ticket gates at Vauxhall each morning?

I presume you will be able to explain why you are buying e-tickets rather than the cheaper and more convenient option of tapping in and out with your card?

If any of the above are not true, I suggest you take a long look at yourself and decide whether you are going to maintain this story about getting lifts, because the court will treat it with a great deal of scepticism.

 

[Hadders]

A few questions:

1. The ticket barriers at Vauxhall are almost always in use so if you do enter at Vauxhall at that time how do you get through the barriers? Are you scanning your ticket?
2. Why don't you use contactless for Vauxhall to Waterloo - contactless is almost always cheaper
3. Are any railcard discounts applied to the tickets you're buying? If so do you possess the railcard and is it in date?
3. Which station do you travel to in the evening?

To be able to give you the best advice we need to know the answer to these questions.

 

[enyoueffsea]

This is the only reason I can think of as it looks like short faring. But it's genuine travel

If it looks like short faring to you, then it almost definitely will to the TOC.

To add to the questions already asked, do you purchase your tickets before boarding the train?