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Incorrectly issued Dartford Crossing tolls

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brad465

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Mod Note: Posts #1 - #10 originally in this thread.

Well I see Dirtford (not a typo) is now spreading its misery across the country:


Drivers from across the UK have received fines for unpaid journeys on the Dartford Crossing despite never having been there, the BBC has learned.

The issue seems to be caused by Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) cameras wrongly identifying vehicles with similar licence plates.

It follows a BBC East Investigation into problems with the Dart Charge system caused by switching to a new provider in July 2023.

National Highways said: “In a minority of circumstances penalty charges are issued in error. Where this happens, the charge will be cancelled as soon as a customer contacts us to let us know they are not the registered keeper of the vehicle."

'I live hundreds of miles away'​

Anne Marie Kenyon, a deputy headteacher from Bury, Greater Manchester, got two fines in the post, one in April and a further one in June this year.
She was confused because she has never used the crossing.
Her licence plate begins DV and on the first occasion the vehicle using the crossing had a number plate with DY at the start; the second time the plate began with OV.
Ms Kenyon said on both occasions the photos provided on the penalty charge notice were "quite blurred and hard to read".
The first fine was easy to deal with because it was during the Easter holidays and she was able to phone the helpline straight away.
The second was more difficult and she found it "so frustrating" to try and clear her name and felt "the way [she] was treated was poor".
Although both fines were cancelled she said she is now worried about whether it will happen again.
 
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MotCO

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Well I see Dirtford (not a typo) is now spreading its misery across the country:

It's not just linked to the new system. About 10 years ago, my mum was charged for a trip she did not make, again due to a misreading of the number plate. Fortunately, the actual car was a different type and colour to my mum's car so an email sorted that out. I think I did play detective to work out what number plate should have been read to help the case.
 
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This could be one of those cases where humans are still needed - to check the reg has been read correctly before sending the dreaded envelope to some far flung address on the moon, or just anywhere that doesn’t make sense
 

Gloster

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This could be one of those cases where humans are still needed - to check the reg has been read correctly before sending the dreaded envelope to some far flung address on the moon, or just anywhere that doesn’t make sense

Having every one checked would be quite a job. A simpler way would be to check those that haven’t been recorded before or only 1/2/3 times and not for x years.
 
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Having every one checked would be quite a job. A simpler way would be to check those that haven’t been recorded before or only 1/2/3 times and not for x years.
Don’t think I meant every one (don’t really know what I meant!) but yeah, something like that would work. Only the ones needing a fine would need to be checked.

Perhaps there could be a National registration tracking system which would track the rough position of every car registered in the UK, at a regular interval, and this could be compared to things like ANPR data when needed so things like this don’t happen. Then of course have a trusty human to make sure.
 

Gloster

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Perhaps there could be a National registration tracking system which would track the rough position of every car registered in the UK, at a regular interval, and this could be compared to things like ANPR data when needed so things like this don’t happen. Then of course have a trusty human to make sure.

This would send the conspiracy theorists berserk, what with claiming that it would allow Bill Gates to know what you were thinking when you had your breakfast. Even though I am not anything like that, I don’t think it would be a good idea to have what would be, in effect, a massive trawling project.
 

Howardh

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This would send the conspiracy theorists berserk, what with claiming that it would allow Bill Gates to know what you were thinking when you had your breakfast. Even though I am not anything like that, I don’t think it would be a good idea to have what would be, in effect, a massive trawling project.

Seriously, he probably does. If you use a clubcard, or even (probably) a credit card at checkout, your purchases are logged. So anyone looking at my bill yesterday can assume today I had a slice of Tiger Loaf with jam and Lidl's own cornflakes with semi-skilled milk in coffee for breakfast!
 

pokemonsuper9

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Don’t think I meant every one (don’t really know what I meant!) but yeah, something like that would work. Only the ones needing a fine would need to be checked.

Perhaps there could be a National registration tracking system which would track the rough position of every car registered in the UK, at a regular interval, and this could be compared to things like ANPR data when needed so things like this don’t happen. Then of course have a trusty human to make sure.
It probably would be possible, ANPR cameras already can be used to tell police when a wanted car is seen.
 

signed

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Perhaps there could be a National registration tracking system which would track the rough position of every car registered in the UK, at a regular interval, and this could be compared to things like ANPR data when needed so things like this don’t happen. Then of course have a trusty human to make sure.
GDPR is very likely going to have a very strong word, since a license plate is Personally Identifiable Information, against that kind of mass surveillance (as it could be seen by most)
 
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This would send the conspiracy theorists berserk, what with claiming that it would allow Bill Gates to know what you were thinking when you had your breakfast. Even though I am not anything like that, I don’t think it would be a good idea to have what would be, in effect, a massive trawling project.
It wouldn’t have to have any connection to the owner of the car - that would be on another system for when a fine is needed.
I see your point though
 

westv

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GDPR is very likely going to have a very strong word, since a license plate is Personally Identifiable Information, against that kind of mass surveillance (as it could be seen by most)
We don't have "license plates" in the UK (It's a number or registration plate) but I do see what you mean.
 
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Ted633

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When you get a charge, they send a photo with 'proof', so as long as the you can read the numberplate or the car is completely different to your own, you can easily prove it wasn't you. Just a bit of a pain.

I've had the same issue with the London ULEZ. Had a couple of charges added to my account and on reviewing the photos (all online) it was fairly clear it wasn't me! Quick email giving the charge details and that it wasn't my vehicle and all was removed very quickly.
 

skyhigh

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This could be one of those cases where humans are still needed - to check the reg has been read correctly before sending the dreaded envelope to some far flung address on the moon, or just anywhere that doesn’t make sense
Or just have 2 cameras, one reading on and one reading off. If a plate is only captured on one camera (because it's been misread by one) don't issue anything.

Much easier than employing humans to read hundreds of thousands of registrations.
 

gingerheid

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Having every one checked would be quite a job. A simpler way would be to check those that haven’t been recorded before or only 1/2/3 times and not for x years.
To me it is reasonable to expect someone to manually check a system demonstrated to be unreliable before issuing penalty charge notices. I don't see why they shouldn't operate to the same standards of care as they expect motorists to operate to when checking they have paid!
 

MotCO

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To me it is reasonable to expect someone to manually check a system demonstrated to be unreliable before issuing penalty charge notices. I don't see why they shouldn't operate to the same standards of care as they expect motorists to operate to when checking they have paid!
How many penalty charges are issued per day? I would expect quite a few so a manual check may not be feasible.
 

jfollows

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To me it is reasonable to expect someone to manually check a system demonstrated to be unreliable before issuing penalty charge notices. I don't see why they shouldn't operate to the same standards of care as they expect motorists to operate to when checking they have paid!
Yes, but they don’t care, they’re only in it for the money and they know that a good proportion of people wrongly issued notices will pay up anyway, what’s not to like about that? It’s one of the huge fallacies about “privatising” public services - there is no longer any duty of care.
 

gingerheid

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How many penalty charges are issued per day? I would expect quite a few so a manual check may not be feasible.

If they issue lots, and they charge money, and if presumably most of them are real, then to me that is all the more reason why they should be checking them.

I do accept that, for example, they can't manually review every transaction charged against an actual DART users account. But I don't see why they shouldn't be held to a high standard of accuracy re penalty notices.
 

MotCO

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If they issue lots, and they charge money, and if presumably most of them are real, then to me that is all the more reason why they should be checking them.

I do accept that, for example, they can't manually review every transaction charged against an actual DART users account. But I don't see why they shouldn't be held to a high standard of accuracy re penalty notices.
Indeed. It's not acceptable for someone to randomly send someone a bill for a service they did not receive, and threaten further action if you do not pay.
Is it possible to upgrade the cameras to record car colour, or maybe identify the manufacturer's badge to further valudate the bills?
 

Meole

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How many penalty charges are issued per day? I would expect quite a few so a manual check may not be feasible.
When the operator changed the number of penalty notices increased from 190,000 per month to 330,000 per month, it has since largely reverted suggesting some teething issues.
 

AndrewE

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What about cloned number plates affecting this issue? If the miscreant has done enough research to find the same model and colour there will be a lot more work to do to prove it wasn't your car...
 
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