Incorrectly made to buy a new ticket -- some reassurance required

[talldave]

Yes, he ignored the stated ticket policy on the website, so why should he take any notice of an email or notice from his employer?

Simple, put their P45 in the next email. The industry doesn't need such arrogance.

 

[crablab]

There is no lawful authority even to request one’s name or address in the circumstances described, as it is very clear no offence was being committed.

I suppose it turns on whether the requester was "reasonable" in their suspicion that ticket was invalid, as to whether a bylaw offence is committed by declining to provide details on request.

Isn't there a separate RoRA offence for failing to provide details to an authorised person? Or is it just bylaw 23?

 

[Lloyds siding]

I suppose it turns on whether the requester was "reasonable" in their suspicion that ticket was invalid, as to whether a bylaw offence is committed by declining to provide details on request.

Isn't there a separate RoRA offence for failing to provide details to an authorised person? Or is it just bylaw 23?

Yes, in any circumstance like this there needs to be 'reasonable grounds'.

 

[johnsmith147]

I emailed David Horne yesterday and recieved a prompt response apologising, saying I'd get a full refund, there will be a bulletin to the train managers generally and the guy in question who caused the grief will be told specifically about the rule. As far as I'm concerned that's excellent customer service all round from everyone else at LNER.

Just wish I could be in the room when the guy is told he's been in the wrong... But I appreciate that's pure pettiness.

Thanks all for your advice/comments.

 

[jumble]

Yes, he ignored the stated ticket policy on the website, so why should he take any notice of an email or notice from his employer?

As David Horne is now involved I would be pretty confident he will be taking notice as I doubt he would be wanting a second interview without coffee
Edit I see that this will be done

 

[dodecahedron67]

FWIW, a retail brief has just been sent out to all DFTO operators reminding everyone that this policy exists and is to adhered to in the event of any cancellations, but not delays

 

[WestCoast]

I had a bit of run in with an LNER guard last year saying I shouldn’t be on his service when they’d cancelled the service after and I even had an email from Trainline (it was a business booking) saying I could use my ticket on the service before (the one I was on) or two services after. He didn’t seem to like Trainline‘s email at all but eventually relented in a bit of a huff. Wonder if it’s the same guy! I probably should have put in a note about him but I had a lot on at the time.

 

[Kite159]

I emailed David Horne yesterday and recieved a prompt response apologising, saying I'd get a full refund, there will be a bulletin to the train managers generally and the guy in question who caused the grief will be told specifically about the rule. As far as I'm concerned that's excellent customer service all round from everyone else at LNER.

Just wish I could be in the room when the guy is told he's been in the wrong... But I appreciate that's pure pettiness.

Thanks all for your advice/comments.

Shame they are not offering some compensation to say sorry, even if just an extra £10 voucher.

No doubt that TM will get an email from his manager which will most likely get ignored because he has been in the job for ten years etc etc

 

[furlong]

FWIW, a retail brief has just been sent out to all DFTO operators reminding everyone that this policy exists and is to adhered to in the event of any cancellations, but not delays

And so the next step is to persuade the powers that be to extend this to all operators and to include predicted delays over 60 minutes (to simplify adherence to PRO regulations, which basically already say you can do this depending on the cause of the delay but each case needs handling individually which they currently make very difficult for people to do).

 

[Mainline421]

Even the page on the LNER website completely fails to acknowledge that most non-advance tickets aren't restricted by operator (and that compensation paid will assume you took the next CrossCountry or other TOC train)

You do not need to change your ticket or buy a new one.


If your ticket is for an LNER, Northern or TransPennine Express train, you can travel on any of those operators between two hours before or two hours after your cancelled train or one of the two trains before or after your cancelled trains, including any connections.


If your train is for another operator, you can use your existing ticket to travel on the same operator either two trains before or two trains after your cancelled train, including any connections.

 

[AdamWW]

I challenged this, and showed him the evidence on these sites:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...ip-to-keep-customers-moving-during-disruption

Cancelled Trains

www.lner.co.uk

The latter of which says:
"If your ticket is for an LNER, Northern or TransPennine Express train, you can travel on any of those operators between two hours before or two hours after your cancelled train or one of the two trains before or after your cancelled trains, including any connections"

Upon which he got very defensive, patronising and rude, along the lines of "I've been doing this job 10 years and am very good at it. We haven't heard anything about ticket acceptance".

This is something I find very frustrating - staff who are so arrogant and sure that as staff they must be in the right and passengers in the wrong that they refuse to accept any evidence to the contrary.

I just can't understand that mindset.

I've been doing my job for more than 10 years and I like to think I'm fairly good at it but I don't consider that it means I can never make a mistake.

I was once told by a guard on one of LNER's predecessor companies while attempting to excess a perfectly valid ticket I held that it didn't make any difference that their own web site would sell it for that exact train. Which I think apart from being horrible customer service might not be entirely compliant with consumer law.

(Even more fun, the off peak restriction that didn't in fact apply to my ticket wasn't implemented by their web site for any ticket. They put up posters about it but I don't know if was actually in the restriction code- this was before you could look them up on-line, or at least before I know how to do so).

 

[STINT47]

I think part of the problem with staff like this is that as humans we don't like to admit that we're wrong and say sorry.

 

[AdamWW]

I think part of the problem with staff like this is that as humans we don't like to admit that we're wrong and say sorry.

It depends on the human. I have no problem with it.

 

[185143]

It depends on the human. I have no problem with it.

Indeed.

I'm sure I'm not the only forum member who's come across guards/RPIs that will gladly question something they're not sure on, and happily accept an explanation and admit they were wrong/unsure, and have also experienced "that's not valid because X..."

"Yes it is because Y"

"Oh it's not valid because Z then"

Before finally accepting actually they might have made a mistake.

Making a genuine mistake is fine. We're all human, it happens. But be mature enough to admit it, rather than realising you were wrong and doubling down on it!

 

[AdamWW]

Indeed.

I'm sure I'm not the only forum member who's come across guards/RPIs that will gladly question something they're not sure on, and happily accept an explanation and admit they were wrong/unsure, and have also experienced "that's not valid because X..."

"Yes it is because Y"

"Oh it's not valid because Z then"

Before finally accepting actually they might have made a mistake.

Making a genuine mistake is fine. We're all human, it happens. But be mature enough to admit it, rather than realising you were wrong and doubling down on it!

Definitely. There certainly are staff who are willing to listen and appreciate that there might be things they aren't aware of, had forgotten, or just got wrong.
And are willing to look at evidence when offered.

But unfortunately too many of the other kind...

 

[nanstallon]

What is it that makes railway employees so arrogant? 'We don't do customer service in Britain'.

 

[AdamWW]

What is it that makes railway employees so arrogant? 'We don't do customer service in Britain'.

Some employees.

There are plenty who clearly are doing their best to do their job well.

 

[sheff1]

Making a genuine mistake is fine. We're all human, it happens. But be mature enough to admit it, rather than realising you were wrong and doubling down on it!

But these people can't be wrong, they have been in the job for xxx years and know that rules etc never change ......

 

[Smidster]

Hopefully a "water, no biscuits" meeting is being arranged for the staff member.

Staff make mistakes and that is fine - What should absolutely not be acceptable in any circumstances is for staff to treat customers with such contempt as displayed here and to go out of their way to make the customer feel as bad and as small as possible - And that basic level of decency and respect would be deserved even if the customer is the one who has made a minor error.

 

[nanstallon]

Hopefully a "water, no biscuits" meeting is being arranged for the staff member.

Staff make mistakes and that is fine - What should absolutely not be acceptable in any circumstances is for staff to treat customers with such contempt as displayed here and to go out of their way to make the customer feel as bad and as small as possible - And that basic level of decency and respect would be deserved even if the customer is the one who has made a minor error.

I wish that there was a 'like' button! Sums up the situation perfectly. I do feel that the prevailing railway culture is to treat the customer as the enemy.