Industry system issues

[VideozVideoz]

Hi all. I’d like to raise something that has occasionally happened to me but never found it reported elsewhere. When I’m looking for advance train tickets, I am sometimes finding that the journey planners (usually the NR one) are messing me about a bit. Let me give you an example. Yesterday, evening I was looking for advance tickets for today BHM-DBY. All I could find were off peak singles for £19.90. I checked numerous times during the evening and it remained the same… until around 11.30pm when a whole load of £9 advance tickets suddenly were available. Now, I didn’t know which time I wanted so decided to come back to it in the morning. Those tickets never reappeared.

This is not the first time it has happened. Advance tickets are sometimes showing, then not showing, and then showing again. Is this a quirk of the industry rail ticketing system and has anyone else experienced something similar?

It’s starting to get on my nerves a little bit because I know there should be advance tickets available for certain routes or trips and occasionally I am finding that the journey planners are not showing anything other than standard tickets. It’s worth noting that I have also used other TOC journey planners just to double check

 

[alistairlees]

Hi all. I’d like to raise something that has occasionally happened to me but never found it reported elsewhere. When I’m looking for advance train tickets, I am sometimes finding that the journey planners (usually the NR one) are messing me about a bit. Let me give you an example. Yesterday, evening I was looking for advance tickets for today BHM-DBY. All I could find were off peak singles for £19.90. I checked numerous times during the evening and it remained the same… until around 11.30pm when a whole load of £9 advance tickets suddenly were available. Now, I didn’t know which time I wanted so decided to come back to it in the morning. Those tickets never reappeared.

This is not the first time it has happened. Advance tickets are sometimes showing, then not showing, and then showing again. Is this a quirk of the industry rail ticketing system and has anyone else experienced something similar?

It’s starting to get on my nerves a little bit because I know there should be advance tickets available for certain routes or trips and occasionally I am finding that the journey planners are not showing anything other than standard tickets. It’s worth noting that I have also used other TOC journey planners just to double check

Probably someone changed their advance tickets to another date, releasing some of the quota, which you then saw.

 

[yorkie]

Hi all. I’d like to raise something that has occasionally happened to me but never found it reported elsewhere. When I’m looking for advance train tickets, I am sometimes finding that the journey planners (usually the NR one) are messing me about a bit. Let me give you an example. Yesterday, evening I was looking for advance tickets for today BHM-DBY. All I could find were off peak singles for £19.90. I checked numerous times during the evening and it remained the same… until around 11.30pm when a whole load of £9 advance tickets suddenly were available. Now, I didn’t know which time I wanted so decided to come back to it in the morning. Those tickets never reappeared.

This is not the first time it has happened. Advance tickets are sometimes showing, then not showing, and then showing again. Is this a quirk of the industry rail ticketing system and has anyone else experienced something similar?

Next time it happens can you post the specifics here? if we are able to see it in real time we may be able to figure out what is going on.

It’s starting to get on my nerves a little bit because I know there should be advance tickets available for certain routes or trips and occasionally I am finding that the journey planners are not showing anything other than standard tickets. It’s worth noting that I have also used other TOC journey planners just to double check

Is there a particular journey you are looking at right now? If so, what's the origin, destination, departure date/time? If it's a complex itinerary it would be useful if you could post the itinerary in an easy to read format.

 

[Wallsendmag]

There are various reasons this could be happening, try using SE,LNER,TPE and Trainline sites to compare the results.

 

[VideozVideoz]

Next time it happens can you post the specifics here? if we are able to see it in real time we may be able to figure out what is going on.

Is there a particular journey you are looking at right now? If so, what's the origin, destination, departure date/time? If it's a complex itinerary it would be useful if you could post the itinerary in an easy to read format.

It wasn’t complex. As per original post, the journey was BHM-DBY. I was looking for journeys around lunchtime on Monday. They weren’t there Sunday evening… then at 11:30pm they were there. Next morning, all gone

There are various reasons this could be happening, try using SE,LNER,TPE and Trainline sites to compare the results.

I did that and for this particular journey, they all said the same

 

[yorkie]

It wasn’t complex. As per original post, the journey was BHM-DBY. I was looking for journeys around lunchtime on Monday. They weren’t there Sunday evening… then at 11:30pm they were there. Next morning, all gone


I did that and for this particular journey, they all said the same

I've amended the thread title to clarify this is about Birmingham - Derby specifically.

I've checked just now and Advance fares are available for that journey.

Your Journey
14:30 - 15:04 Mon 27 Jun

←Outward Time→
12:49—13:31Direct £9.00
13:30—14:05Direct £9.00
14:03—14:38Direct £9.00
14:30—15:04Direct £9.00

If you notice that they cease to be, feel free to report it here and people can have a look.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I did that and for this particular journey, they all said the same

That would point to a problem with the quota alocation then.

 

[trentvalley]

Crosscountry have different amounts of before the day advances and on the day advances.

So once the before the day ones sell out you will only see the anytime / off peak tickets available then when it gets to the day of travel (pretty sure it's midnight but may change by an hour due to the clocks changing) they release on the day advances.
These are not the same price as the previous advances, normally 30p or so more, not the cheapest tier and are not available on all flows.

 

[yorkie]

Is there a particular journey you are looking at right now? If so, what's the origin, destination, departure date/time?

It wasn’t complex. As per original post, the journey was BHM-DBY. I was looking for journeys around lunchtime on Monday. They weren’t there Sunday evening… then at 11:30pm they were there. Next morning, all gone

Can you confirm which Monday you are/were looking at travelling; is it the 27th of June or was this for Monday just gone?

 

[VideozVideoz]

Can you confirm which Monday you are/were looking at travelling; is it the 27th of June or was this for Monday just gone?

Hi all. Thanks for your input. It was the Monday just gone. Sunday night - no advances showing at all until ~11.30pm when there were suddenly plentiful for each of the hourly trains. Come the morning, full price only which means I had to pay £19.90. If I’d known which train I wanted the night before I would have booked it there and then at 11.30pm

I appreciate the subject line has been changed because of the Birmingham to Derby discussion, but my original query was regarding a general issue with the industry ticketing system. I just gave Birmingham to Derby as an example that had just occurred so now the subject is a bit misleading. I’ve seen this issue on other routes at other times

 

[yorkie]

I’ve seen this issue on other routes at other times

Do you have any examples of this? We need the relevant details to be able to give an answer.

If this is not occurring at the current time, we'll have to leave it for now but please feel free to update the thread next time it occurs.

 

[VideozVideoz]

Do you have any examples of this? We need the relevant details to be able to give an answer.

If this is not occurring at the current time, we'll have to leave it for now but please feel free to update the thread next time it occurs.

It has happened so many times over the past few years, I don’t recall the exact journeys hence why I cannot post them. I’d finally had enough this time so decided to post here. Next time it happens I will post straight away but it could prove tricky. I think I will have to post when I get a hunch that it isn’t right. Let’s see what I can dig up

ADDITION: Ok, so there are a full set of advances available from Monday 27th on the BHM-DBY route. I don’t believe for one second that every single one between now and Monday morning have been sold out (despite the strikes), yet the journey planners are showing full price only. And suddenly plentiful for Monday - I can’t move for the number of advance tickets available. Something is not right here

 

[yorkie]

I suspect XC have removed them due to the strikes; there is often a lot of long distance travel on Sunday and there might be more than usual on that particular day with the full set of morning services not running also.

 

[VideozVideoz]

I suspect XC have removed them due to the strikes; there is often a lot of long distance travel on Sunday and there might be more than usual on that particular day with the full set of morning services not running also.

Ok well I shall keep on with this as I am not happy at what I’ve experienced just now, and also on occasion over the past few years

 

[yorkie]

If it happens again please let us know straight away but in this case (Birmingham to Derby) it is almost certainly a deliberate decision by XC, and not some sort of glitch or error.

 

[VideozVideoz]

If it happens again please let us know straight away but in this case (Birmingham to Derby) it is almost certainly a deliberate decision by XC, and not some sort of glitch or error

Heh but Sunday evening’s shenanigans for Monday’s advance tickets were def a glitch!

 

[yorkie]

That could have been a mistake, it's difficult to say, but if it happens again it may be easier to work out if we can see what is happening in realtime.

 

[VideozVideoz]

I know this won’t help cuz I’m prob too late but I have just bought a Derby to Birmingham anytime ticket because there were no advances earlier today. I’ve JUST looked now and there are loads of £10.60 ones that weren’t there before…. I swear summat dodgy is going on

 

[alistairlees]

I know this won’t help cuz I’m prob too late but I have just bought a Derby to Birmingham anytime ticket because there were no advances earlier today. I’ve JUST looked now and there are loads of £10.60 ones that weren’t there before…. I swear summat dodgy is going on

What date did you buy the Anytime Single for?

I would not expect there is anything "dodgy" going on; most likely this is an unintended outcome of something else.

 

[VideozVideoz]

It was a same day ticket. Standard tickets only available at lunchtime today then suddenly late afternoon, a whole raft of advances were showing. I know you are doubting me here, but I can only tell you what I am experiencing on occasion. Advance tickets disappear, then return and disappearing again. I’m honestly not making it up and I find it frustrating that I am being overcharged unnecessarily

 

[alistairlees]

What date did you buy the Anytime Single for? Was it for travel today?

 

[VideozVideoz]

What date did you buy the Anytime Single for? Was it for travel today?

Yes, as per last post I bought a ticket for the same day (today), costing £19.90. The whole day had no advances, but later on today loads of advances appeared

 

[alistairlees]

Looking at tomorrow afternoon from Derby to Birmingham, there are 32 services. As of now, 25 of these have Advance fares below the price (£19.90) of the Off-Peak Single*, ranging from £7.20 to £16.60 in price, available. There are never more than two in a row that don't have an Advance available.

Perhaps availability will reduce after midnight or later tomorrow - but the quantity available at present looks very good.

Perhaps you could take some screenshots of the results for the same trains at various times tomorrow, showing Advances available, then not available, then available again? This would help.


*There are some trains with Advance fares for more than the Off-Peak Single, which is obviously nuts.

 

[VideozVideoz]

Sorry didn’t manage to check the forum today. Will try and carry out your request this week. Im sure you can imagine how frustrating it is to see no advances, then paying full price for a ticket only to see cheaper advances become available again

I agree it is bonkers that some advances are dearer than the OFFPEAK ticket. I’m not sure why this is allowable or possible.

 

[DelayRepay]

I know this won’t help cuz I’m prob too late but I have just bought a Derby to Birmingham anytime ticket because there were no advances earlier today. I’ve JUST looked now and there are loads of £10.60 ones that weren’t there before…. I swear summat dodgy is going on

I have just done a search for this journey today and there are plenty of £10.60 Advances available during off-peak periods.

Are you using the exact same search criteria every time? Are you trying to add a Railcard discount?

 

[VideozVideoz]

I have just done a search for this journey today and there are plenty of £10.60 Advances available during off-peak periods.

Are you using the exact same search criteria every time? Are you trying to add a Railcard discount?

I am not doing anything different or quirky. I am not entitled to railcard discounts so the only inputs are start and end destinations and today’s date. This is where I am seeing the issue with advances, even during the OFFPEAK periods where they aren’t showing. And then miraculous I see them come back and disappear again

 

[alistairlees]

I am not doing anything different or quirky. I am not entitled to railcard discounts so the only inputs are start and end destinations and today’s date. This is where I am seeing the issue with advances, even during the OFFPEAK periods where they aren’t showing. And then miraculous I see them come back and disappear again

You still haven't shown any pictures of this issue, or provided any detailed facts, which would help in understanding whether it really is an issue.

Is it happening now?

 

[yorkie]

Yes we do need a bit more information; exact times of when the searches are made as well as the times of the trains in question would be good. The sooner we can be informed about it, the better as we may be able to catch it happening in real time.

 

[Haywain]

To be clear, this is something that retailers would like to get to the bottom of, not just members of this forum, but with so little information there’s not much can be done to investigate the problem you describe.

 

[Starmill]

It's very common on CrossCountry for a train to reduce in price on the day of travel, or for Advance tickets to become sold out and then available again on the day. They do this because they know that some people will decide to make a journey maybe the night before or a just a few days prior, and that they will want to "lock in" a price to be sure they'll have a ticket (and probably a seat), because they've also booked a hotel, flight, car hire, restaurants etc etc at the same time. They know that's a different market segment from people who will look for tickets 2 hours to 5 minutes before they want to set off, and different again from the set of people who want to book a month to three months or even longer in advance. Unfortunately it's not actually true that people who want to book the longest time in advance are willing to pay the least, and the people who book at the closest possible time before departure (generally viewed as around 5 minutes although of course slightly less is sometimes possible) are willing to pay the most. It's variable.

Unfortunately as others have said we have no idea what exactly is going on here because we can't check it. If you can give us in advance some time ranges when you'd like to travel, on specific dates, then we can keep looking it up for you and recording what we find.

If you're going to be using an Anytime or Off Peak ticket, my recommendation would be not to buy this until you're on your way into the station. You can get the ticket on your smartphone if you have one, and display it on your phone, otherwise I'd get the ticket from a ticket machine. These can both be done quickly.