Industry system issues

[VideozVideoz]

Guys, I am trying my best here. I have already agreed to supply you with times / screenshots etc when it happens but I have not seen it so far this week, although I have been rather busy. The tone of some of the responses do sound like I’m being hounded and that what I am saying is a bit fictitious. I can assure you that I am not making this up, hence why I have posted. I get you need detail but I can’t supply it if I haven’t managed to catch it “in the act” since reporting it. I shall persist but in the meantime, please cut me a bit of slack as I know what I need to do to help other ppl investigate

 

[DelayRepay]

Guys, I am trying my best here. I have already agreed to supply you with times / screenshots etc when it happens but I have not seen it so far this week, although I have been rather busy. The tone of some of the responses do sound like I’m being hounded and that what I am saying is a bit fictitious. I can assure you that I am not making this up, hence why I have posted. I get you need detail but I can’t supply it if I haven’t managed to catch it “in the act” since reporting it. I shall persist but in the meantime, please cut me a bit of slack as I know what I need to do to help other ppl investigate

I don't think you are being hounded. There are some people on this forum who work in the industry and will be able to get this fixed, once it's confirmed there is a problem.

It sounds like the worse kind of IT problem - an intermittent one that never occurs when the support person is to hand but then happens again as soon as they turn their back!

 

[VideozVideoz]

Ok let’s have a try with this one… The time is 23:24 on 1st July. I have searched MAC-MAN where I know there are advance singles available between these 2 stations as I have bought them before. Currently nothing for Sat and Sun and the first advance I can see is for a late Monday evening service. This does not feel right as I know advances are plentiful on this route. Screenshots attached. I shall check again later or in the morning

 

[alistairlees]

Ok let’s have a try with this one… The time is 23:24 on 1st July. I have searched MAC-MAN where I know there are advance singles available between these 2 stations as I have bought them before. Currently nothing for Sat and Sun and the first advance I can see is for a late Monday evening service. This does not feel right as I know advances are plentiful on this route. Screenshots attached. I shall check again later or in the morning

The only Advances in the fares data for this route are for Northern trains. So you won't see ever any on the Avanti or CrossCountry journeys.

As you say, the only Northern service that seems to have Advance fares on it at the moment is the 22.49 from Macclesfield to Manchester Piccadilly on weekday evenings. I don't know why this is.

 

[skyhigh]

As you say, the only Northern service that seems to have Advance fares on it at the moment is the 22.49 from Macclesfield to Manchester Piccadilly on weekday evenings. I don't know why this is.

I'm guessing capacity reasons. There has been a lot of feedback from crew.

 

[VideozVideoz]

Not significant (although I’m still hopeful!) but a couple of other trains are now showing advances

 

[alistairlees]

It seems that the first and last Northern Trains services have, on Mondays to Saturdays, Advance fares available. But there are none on Sundays. I don't see anything odd here.

 

[VideozVideoz]

It seems that the first and last Northern Trains services have, on Mondays to Saturdays, Advance fares available. But there are none on Sundays. I don't see anything odd here.

Ok so I’m yet to prove the point but eventually I will be able to show that advance tickets disappear and reappear on occasion. Even though you can’t see anything odd, I still don’t think it’s right that there are barely any advances today, tomorrow or Monday. No way are they all sold out and I’ve seen them littered from morning, noon til night previously

 

[alistairlees]

Ok so I’m yet to prove the point but eventually I will be able to show that advance tickets disappear and reappear on occasion. Even though you can’t see anything odd, I still don’t think it’s right that there are barely any advances today, tomorrow or Monday. No way are they all sold out and I’ve seen them littered from morning, noon til night previously

I agree that they are not sold out; they have simply not been released for the other trains. Whether that is a deliberate policy or an oversight we don’t know.

 

[Haywain]

I’ve seen them littered from morning, noon til night previously

Are you referring to recent months or earlier pre-CoVid times? With the railways under government control, there are not so many 'loss-leader' type tickets offers around now.

 

[VideozVideoz]

Both. And the reason for starting this thread is because I have been caught out just recently with the advances issue I have been complaining about

UPDATE: And now advances are appearing again! 12.53am on 3rd July…

 

[alistairlees]

You are correct. There are now (as of 12.40 on Sunday 3rd July):
- £4.70 Advance fares on every Northern Train from Macclesfield to Manchester on Monday 4th July (tomorrow)
- £4.70 Advance fares on early, and £3.80 on later, Northern Trains services from Macclesfield to Manchester on Thursday 7th July

None of these Advance fares (except for first and last train of the day) were present about 24 hours ago (when I last looked).

This is very poor, whatever the reason.

 

[VideozVideoz]

You are correct. There are now (as of 12.40 on Sunday 3rd July):
- £4.70 Advance fares on every Northern Train from Macclesfield to Manchester on Monday 4th July (tomorrow)
- £4.70 Advance fares on early, and £3.80 on later, Northern Trains services from Macclesfield to Manchester on Thursday 7th July

None of these Advance fares (except for first and last train of the day) were present about 24 hours ago (when I last looked).

This is very poor, whatever the reason.

And this is my point! Either there is an issue with the system or somebody is “tinkering” on a regular ad-hoc basis. This is why I’ve raised this thread because I’m being conned on numerous occasions as a result of this messing around

 

[VideozVideoz]

Last night Birmingham to Crewe was littered with advance tickets. £8 for West Midlands Railway trains and £20+ for other operators. Checked first thing this morning, not one advance ticket is showing for today FULL STOP. Screenshots attached - time is 6:10am 15th July. Russian roulette again - will they reappear?? Incidentally I bought my advance last night

 

[alistairlees]

Last night Birmingham to Crewe was littered with advance tickets. £8 for West Midlands Railway trains and £20+ for other operators. Checked first thing this morning, not one advance ticket is showing for today FULL STOP. Screenshots attached - time is 6:10am 15th July. Russian roulette again - will they reappear?? Incidentally I bought my advance last night

Some Advance fares are only available up to midnight the day before travel; others right up to the moment of travel. It depends on the TOC.

 

[VideozVideoz]

Some Advance fares are only available up to midnight the day before travel; others right up to the moment of travel. It depends on the TOC.

This is all TOCs though. That route is covered by Avanti, Cross Country and WMR. Do you not see that it’s odd that it was littered with advances last night and there’s not one to be seen this morning?

 

[alistairlees]

This is all TOCs though. That route is covered by Avanti, Cross Country and WMR. Do you not see that it’s odd that it was littered with advances last night and there’s not one to be seen this morning?

As I said it depends on the TOC. I'm not saying it's good, I'm just explaining. Without looking up the policies for the TOCs / products I can't answer the question.

 

[VideozVideoz]

As I said it depends on the TOC. I'm not saying it's good, I'm just explaining. Without looking up the policies for the TOCs / products I can't answer the question.

Well I’ve bought advance tickets the same day for all of these providers so I don’t think policy comes into it

 

[Hadders]

My layman's view is that the train companies have decided not to offer any Advance Purchase on the Day tickets. Advance tickets are unregulated and train companies can do as they please with them.

 

[Alex365Dash]

Well I’ve bought advance tickets the same day for all of these providers so I don’t think policy comes into it

Policy does come into it as said policy dictates when Advance tickets are made unavailable - for example, latest Advance booking times for West Midlands Trains (West Midlands Railway and London Northwestern Railway) mean that no Advance fares for those TOCs will be sold on the day of travel, as they only sell Advance fares up to 23:59 the day before.

 

[VideozVideoz]

Policy does come into it as said policy dictates when Advance tickets are made unavailable - for example, latest Advance booking times for West Midlands Trains (West Midlands Railway and London Northwestern Railway) mean that no Advance fares for those TOCs will be sold on the day of travel, as they only sell Advance fares up to 23:59 the day before.

I think you have misunderstood. Alastair said it’s to do with policy but if that’s the case, then goalposts are being changed because I have bought northern, Avanti and CrossCountry advance tickets the same day before yet I am seeing things disappear and reappear. Maybe have another read of the whole thread to digest the issue I am discussing.

And you are wrong when you say “that no Advance fares for those TOCs will be sold on the day of travel, as they only sell Advance fares up to 23:59 the day before.” I have just searched for tickets today (it’s 12.45am) and they are there (see screenshot). So please don’t tell me that “policy does come into it” because clearly the policy changes as and when they feel like it

 

[Hadders]

I think you have misunderstood. Alastair said it’s to do with policy but if that’s the case, then goalposts are being changed because I have bought northern, Avanti and CrossCountry advance tickets the same day before yet I am seeing things disappear and reappear. Maybe have another read of the whole thread to digest the issue I am discussing.

There is no entitlement to Advance tickets (unlike, for example a ‘walk on’ ticket)

Train companies can add and remove them at their discretion.

‘Normal’ Advance tickets are removed from sale the night before (usually 23:59 but can be earlier). Advance tickets on the day of travel is a relatively new thing and I suspect that where these are offered it is from a completely different quota.

If my hypothesis is correct then a TOC might remove their ‘normal’ Advance fares at 18:00 or 23:59 (or when the quota has sold out), with the Advance Purchase on the Day quite going on sale early in the day.

I suspect @alistairlees will know more.

 

[Alex365Dash]

I think you have misunderstood. Alastair said it’s to do with policy but if that’s the case, then goalposts are being changed because I have bought northern, Avanti and CrossCountry advance tickets the same day before yet I am seeing things disappear and reappear. Maybe have another read of the whole thread to digest the issue I am discussing.

Avanti, CrossCountry and Northern do sell Advance tickets on the day - how many is up to them and can be zero if they so desire.

However West Midlands Trains states that they don’t sell Advance tickets on the day - which isn’t relevant for the initial example but is for Birmingham to Crewe. The 08:25 Birmingham New Street to Crewe service having Advances still available past the cutoff time is interesting - I’m not entirely sure as to why it’s still for sale!

Outside of the well-publicised latest booking times and Advance booking horizons, Advance ticket availability is a bit of a black box and no publicised policy exists - the amount (or lack thereof) of Advance tickets actually available for some journeys does seem like a bit of a mystery at times, I’ll give you that!

 

[VideozVideoz]

Avanti, CrossCountry and Northern do sell Advance tickets on the day - how many is up to them and can be zero if they so desire.

However West Midlands Trains states that they don’t sell Advance tickets on the day - which isn’t relevant for the initial example but is for Birmingham to Crewe. The 08:25 Birmingham New Street to Crewe service having Advances still available past the cutoff time is interesting - I’m not entirely sure as to why it’s still for sale!

Outside of the well-publicised latest booking times and Advance booking horizons, Advance ticket availability is a bit of a black box and no publicised policy exists - the amount (or lack thereof) of Advance tickets actually available for some journeys does seem like a bit of a mystery at times, I’ll give you that!

So coming back to the original reason for raising this thread… I was suspicious that there is either something wrong with the industry system, a quirk or a glitch going on but are we now saying that TOCs are tinkering all the time with their offerings, based on the evidence I have posted so far? I really don’t like this cloak and dagger approach as for me it’s Russian roulette as to whether advances will appear, reappear, never appear etc

 

[Dai Corner]

So coming back to the original reason for raising this thread… I was suspicious that there is either something wrong with the industry system, a quirk or a glitch going on but are we now saying that TOCs are tinkering all the time with their offerings, based on the evidence I have posted so far? I really don’t like this cloak and dagger approach as for me it’s Russian roulette as to whether advances will appear, reappear, never appear etc

I think of it as like shops having special offers on different goods at different times. If you have the time to shop in several stores every day you'll find most of the bargains. If you don't you won't and you'll pay the regular price unless you're lucky.