Inspector stabbed.....

[coupwotcoup]

apologies if this is already elsewhere...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-16229921

Ticket inspector stabbed on C2C train from Southend to London


A ticket inspector has been stabbed on a C2C train travelling from Essex into London, prompting an investigation by British Transport Police (BTP).


The attack at East Tilbury happened on the 20:20 Southend [Central] to London Fenchurch Street service on Friday.


BTP said the inspector had asked two men without tickets, aged about 18, to leave the train. They got off, but one returned and stabbed him in the back.


The inspector was said to be in a comfortable condition in hospital.


Officers are now looking through CCTV images and are appealing to any passengers on the train who witnessed anything to contact them.

'Severely punished'

One of the suspects wore a black hooded top and the second a grey flat cap and grey top.


The police force said there had been four ticket inspectors on the service at the time of the stabbing and that they worked in pairs.


Bob Crow, general secretary of the Rail Maritime and Transport union representing many railway workers, said anyone with any information should contact police urgently.


"Once again it shows the dangers that transport staff face every day and particularly over the Christmas and new year period.


"The perpetrators of this vicious and cowardly assault must be caught and the authorities need to show that those who attack public service workers will be severely punished," he said.

I suppose he felt 'disrespected'.
What possesses people to do such a thing?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

But the lad who stabbed him had diabetes so it wasnt his fault.

Okay, I am being irreverent, but this is the kind of thing that guards always have at the back of their minds and if we go back to a certain incident which has generated a lot of column inches this week then you have to appreciate how difficult a guards job can be sometimes just because some people want a free ride. Any time a passenger gets hostile there has to be an element of fear for the guard.

In this case, I hope the lad gets the book thrown at him and that the guard is okay. I guess the silver lining is that he gets Xmas and new year off!

 

[4SRKT]

There's a massive difference between trying it on and fessing up when you get caught with no ticket, and stabbing someone when you are caught. Not all fare evasion is the same. This is a truly shocking incident and this cnut needs to be sorted good and proper by the full force of the law. And that's woolly liberal ol' me saying that.

 

[Nym]

There's a massive difference between trying it on and fessing up when you get caught with no ticket, and stabbing someone when you are caught. Not all fare evasion is the same. This is a truly shocking incident and this cnut needs to be sorted good and proper by the full force of the law. And that's woolly liberal ol' me saying that.

It won't be though... The MoJ will turn round and say the Guard shouldn't have provoked him by demanding a ticket, or something equally idiotic!

 

[NLC1072]

Amazing how they have managed to come up with Southend Victoria to Fenchurch Street in that report though... shoddy reporting from BBC...

 

[coupwotcoup]

Can't believe I didn't spot that either...as you say, shoddy research and train on the loop too, I believe.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

He had Diabetes, he was drunk...ooops wrong thread

Best wishes to the Inspector/Guard this is one of the many risks we take every day in the course of our duties but lets all be liberal and say he shouldn't be punished because

A: he isn't really such a bad lad
B: he fell in with the wrong crowd
C: he felt under pressure from his peers
D: he has some sort of medical condition thats makes him act this way

*Delete as appropriate

 

[tsr]

Rumours of "Big Man" now being armed with a Taser are largely unfounded.

I jest. In seriousness, this is a disgusting crime, and I hope the guard/inspector recovers fully in due course. I cannot think, barring mental illness, why the perpetrator should not face justice. But, of course, he clearly had two tickets for the opposite direction of travel.

Before anyone points it out to me, I know this didn't happen in Scotland.

 

[Legzr1]

A disgusting,cowardly act and a fair reflection on the way 'society' behaves in certain parts of this country.

The BBC get the train destination wrong - who cares?

The point is that these two animals need to be caught quickly and punished.

 

[Greenback]

Members of the moderating team have discussed this thread and concluded that Cherry Picker's post, although well intentioned and making a valid point through the use of humour, is not appropriate in the circumstances of an incident of stabbing.

We have decided not to delete the post as replies have already been made. We do not believe that Cherry Picker has set out to deliberately provoke an argument. Nonetheless, this is something that is a distinct possibility, so we would ask that everyone refrains from starting a debate over Cherry Picker's comments.

 

[Kingsbury Jn.]

The BBC get the train destination wrong - who cares?

If they wish to find witnesses to the attack, the correct time and places is rather important!

 

[ukrob]

Rumours of "Big Man" now being armed with a Taser are largely unfounded.

I jest. In seriousness, this is a disgusting crime, and I hope the guard/inspector recovers fully in due course. I cannot think, barring mental illness, why the perpetrator should not face justice. But, of course, he clearly had two tickets for the opposite direction of travel.

Before anyone points it out to me, I know this didn't happen in Scotland.

Mental illness is not an excuse for stabbing someone.

I thought I was quite liberal but I'm stunned by this point.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Mental illness is not an excuse for stabbing someone.

Actually it is. I suggest you look up the defence of insanity.

 

[ukrob]

Actually it is. I suggest you look up the defence of insanity.

So you are suggesting that this thug was mentally insane?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

So you are suggesting that this thug was mentally insane?

No, you stated mental illness was not a defence to GBH. That is clearly wrong, as I pointed out.

 

[jon0844]

A disgusting,cowardly act and a fair reflection on the way 'society' behaves in certain parts of this country.

When I saw the mention of an RPI being stabbed, I already thought 'c2c'.

Having seen the local scrotes, and the staff wearing headcams, it seems that the only reason there aren't more problems is because a lot of the security staff are very tough - and they seem to try and protect the stations like fortresses.

But, even in the day, I saw people jumping the gates and swearing and goading the staff. It seems like a constant game of cat and mouse, so terrible as this incident is - it seems more incredible that it doesn't happen more often.

 

[313103]

Pity that it wasnt put on You Tube, then we can see what force the RPI did to warrant the assault. Then others on here could of gone through it like a fine toothcomb and find all the things he did wrong to justify the person assaulting him.

Ironic that in light of the recent Scotrail incident (where the Guard was (sic) wrong) we have this disgusting thing to happen to a member of staff.

 

[jon0844]

So you are suggesting that this thug was mentally insane?

This is already being suggested for the racist 'tram' woman, as a possible defence for what she did - and the many people who now think that, if true, she didn't mean what she said and shouldn't be given a hard time!

I do feel sick that in so many instances, an offender is defended because everyone likes to think that there's some good in everyone - while those who try and do the right thing are attacked for going beyond the confines of the law, and should have known better.

I cannot see there being ANY defence for stabbing someone, except perhaps for self defence.

Pity that it wasnt put on You Tube, then we can see what force the RPI did to warrant the assault. Then others on here could of gone through it like a fine toothcomb and find all the things he did wrong to justify the person assaulting him.

Ironic that in light of the recent Scotrail incident (where the Guard was (sic) wrong) we have this disgusting thing to happen to a member of staff.

Nobody seems to think fare evasion is a real crime. In fact, it seems like even people I (sort of) know are of the opinion that if you can avoid paying, it's fine (and when we have a society that likes to blame everyone else for the ills of this world, it's easy to say 'Greedy train operators don't deserve my money' like blaming everything on bankers and politicians, or anyone earning £1 per annum more than them).

I have to bite my lip when I hear friends or colleagues talk like that, and I will usually try and be diplomatic and explain why that's the wrong attitude - but it just shows how widespread the problem is. I do know that none of these people would sneak into a theatre or cinema without buying a ticket, or steal from a shop, but the railway is fair game. Why is that?

When you have so many people seeking to avoid paying, rather than just paying because that's the right thing to do, staff are very unlikely to get the support they need to do their job. Ordinary people don't seem to realise that the type of person that will not pay for a ticket and happily break any law because they have no respect and keep getting away with it, are probably the same people that may harass you on the train or on the street, mug you - or stab someone. So, sitting back and saying 'well, the RPI was asking for it' which you KNOW some people will be saying, perhaps not on this forum but look around and you'll find them, just makes things worse.

(Best end my rant for now before I get mad!)

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I cannot see there being ANY defence for stabbing someone, except perhaps for self defence.

There are many. To say otherwise shows an ignorance of the law. Our entire legal system is based around the concept that if someone does not have the guilty mind then they cannot be found guilty. Therefore we have partial defences for murder like Loss of Control and Diminished Responsibility. There are complete defences for other crimes like Automatism, Insanity, Consent, Self Defence and Intoxication (though intox is a pretty weird defence to apply).

These defences are for the jury to decide. If and when this case gets to court then they will decide whether he is guilty beyond reasonable doubt or not guilty. Hopefully he is caught to allow this process to take place.

 

[4SRKT]

Like ralph said.

 

[jon0844]

There are many. To say otherwise shows an ignorance of the law.

I am not ignorant of the law, but I was giving my opinion that I can't see many reasons.

However, I do actually accept some of those defences, but would imagine those cases being quite rare and it being more a case of people trying to get off by using one of the defences. I'd hope that the legal system is usually good at spotting when people are trying it on.

 

[WestCoast]

Indeed, you don't have to agree with the law either. Slavery was once legal, need I say more...

 

[ralphchadkirk]

However, I do actually accept some of those defences, but would imagine those cases being quite rare and it being more a case of people trying to get off by using one of the defences. I'd hope that the legal system is usually good at spotting when people are trying it on.

Defendants will try and claim defences even if there is a very tenuous link. It's up to 12 ordinary men and women to decide if the defence is valid, aided by the evidence given. If course if either side feel that the decision was incorrect then they can apply for leave to appeal.

 

[jon0844]

Indeed, you don't have to agree with the law either. Slavery was once legal, need I say more...

Yes, I think you do! I'd like to know how you can bring that into this thread, as if my opinion on this means I supported slavery!

 

[tsr]

There are many. To say otherwise shows an ignorance of the law. Our entire legal system is based around the concept that if someone does not have the guilty mind then they cannot be found guilty. Therefore we have partial defences for murder like Loss of Control and Diminished Responsibility. There are complete defences for other crimes like Automatism, Insanity, Consent, Self Defence and Intoxication (though intox is a pretty weird defence to apply).

These defences are for the jury to decide. If and when this case gets to court then they will decide whether he is guilty beyond reasonable doubt or not guilty. Hopefully he is caught to allow this process to take place.

This is almost exactly what I meant in my earlier post. I apologise for any unintended confusion! To further clarify, I am not implying that there was any defence for the crime being discussed. We don't know.

 

[WestCoast]

Yes, I think you do! I'd like to know how you can bring that into this thread, as if my opinion on this means I supported slavery!

I am agreeing with you. No-one has to be supportive of the the law, that's my point, we just have to follow it. Having a personal opinion which is not supported by the law is not (usually) ignorance.

 

[jon0844]

Thanks for explaining/clarifying that we're both singing from the same hymn sheet!!

 

[newbie babs]

This is a disgusting incident but I fear this may not be the last one.

There is no excuse for stabbing anyone especially in the back that shows even more intention of harm. I do hope the Guard is ok.

I think if the one in the paper who got thrown off the train manages to prosecute the guy that took him off the train, then people like the guy last night with the knife will think they can get away with causing disruption, harm or even murder without anyone stopping them.

Its a horrible fact of life these days.

 

[Wyvern]

CCTV images show stabbing suspects

 

[All Line Rover]

Actually it is. I suggest you look up the defence of insanity.

True, but you are not suggesting that (in a case where a person has a mental illness) they are left completely off the hook, with "insanity" being used as a defense? I know nothing about these matters, so would be interested to know.

Even if a person has/had a mental illness when they stabbed someone, they should still be "behind bars" (aka. the mental illness section of a hospital!) as they pose a real threat to the public.