Intercity 225 to Newcastle?

[CDM Transport]

Hello,

I've heard there are lots of roumours there is a class 91 with an Intercity 225 set going up to Newcastle on test

After this I believe they might be deployed on York - Newcastle shuttles

If anyone can confirm/ add to this that would be brilliant

Caleb

 

[dodecahedron67]

No plans for this as far as I understand. YRK - NCL shuttles formed off 2x 5 car 80x from Doncaster Carr & Heaton

 

[CDM Transport]

No plans for this as far as I understand. YRK - NCL shuttles formed off 2x 5 car 80x from Doncaster Carr & Heaton

Yes, I saw they were pathed as 80x'.

I was wondering if they may do King's Cross (KGX) - Newcastle

 

[TheBigD]

There was some speculation about Newcastle seeing some 91/Mk4 on services during the upcoming engineering work that will see access to Neville Hill restricted/no access for a couple of months (16 weeks?).
Not sure of the exact dates or whether there is any substance to the speculation.

 

[rg177]

No plans for this as far as I understand. YRK - NCL shuttles formed off 2x 5 car 80x from Doncaster Carr & Heaton

The 0743 off Newcastle is even booked for Platform 11 (bay) which precludes anything other than a five-car IET.

Also a fairly unusual instance of an LNER service departing from one of those platforms!

 

[DanNCL]

I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve heard it suggested that 91s are coming back to Newcastle. As much as I’d love to see it, I’ll believe it when it happens.

Losing Neville Hill whilst still running a full timetable would put LNER in a difficult situation, they’d have too many services to run entirely with 80xs which means that the 91s would have to temporarily be based elsewhere. Bounds Green isn’t an option anymore with it being a Hitachi facility that’s full which would leave Heaton as the obvious location to temporarily base the 91s.
This is entirely hypothetical though as, afaik, the Neville Hill blockade isn’t until after the 897s arrive which means the 91s will have made a one way trip to Newport by then.

That said it would be useful to have the ability to run 91s to Newcastle again as it would improve flexibility during disruption and would also potentially allow 5 car workings on Sundays to be lengthened by using a 91 on a Newcastle service and using the 801/1 to double up another service to 10 car.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

That said it would be useful to have the ability to run 91s to Newcastle again as it would improve flexibility during disruption and would also potentially allow 5 car workings on Sundays to be lengthened by using a 91 on a Newcastle service and using the 801/1 to double up another service to 10 car.

Wouldn’t you need to use the 801/1 displaced from Newcastle to replace the 91/mk4 set on what it’s currently works on a Sunday as all 5 traffic 91/mk4 sets are already diagrammed on Sundays?

 

[CDM Transport]

An LNER driver told me back in March that "91s will start running up to Newcastle in 7 car formations"

 

[DanNCL]

Wouldn’t you need to use the 801/1 displaced from Newcastle to replace the 91/mk4 set on what it’s currently works on a Sunday as all 5 traffic 91/mk4 sets are already diagrammed on Sundays?

Of course, I’d forgotten the diagrams changed. I was thinking back to an old set of diagrams where a Mark 4 set sat at Ferme Park for several hours during which an 801/1 did a Kings Cross - Newcastle return trip.

 

[YorksLad12]

An LNER driver told me back in March that "91s will start running up to Newcastle in 7 car formations"

That would indeed have been true in March 2020. I saw one at Leeds once, presumably a test run of some sort during the Pandemic Times.

 

[CDM Transport]

That would indeed have been true in March 2020. I saw one at Leeds once, presumably a test run of some sort during the Pandemic Times.

Was told this March 2024

 

[Halish Railway]

One thing about 91s going to West Yorkshire is that they will present something of an operational inconvenience given that they won’t be able operate all of the services that go to Leeds and beyond. Of course they, as well as 801s unless paired with an 800 can’t go to Harrogate and if the new all-day Bradford extensions use platform 4 at Shipley which will only be able to accommodate 6 carriages then the 91s won’t be able to go to Bradford, unless they cross onto platform 3 and potentially delay other services.

I would imagine that in the event of engineering works that prevent the use of the 91+Mk4 sets, the new Newcastle terminators will be the easiest to cancel and have their stops redistributed onto other services. Durham and Northallerton can be added to one of the Edinburgh services and Grantham and Stevenage can probably suffice with the other services that call there.

 

[AaronHannaway]

Tuesday is the day!

5G90 Neville Hill - Newcastle, arriving around 1300

5G91 13xx Newcastle - Neville Hill

Both pathed as LNER Electric Locomotives at 125mph

 

[800001]

Tuesday is the day!

5G90 Neville Hill - Newcastle, arriving around 1300

5G91 13xx Newcastle - Neville Hill

Both pathed as LNER Electric Locomotives at 125mph

This is supposedly to run as a 7 car set.

 

[800Travel]

Tuesday is the day!

5G90 Neville Hill - Newcastle, arriving around 1300

5G91 13xx Newcastle - Neville Hill

Both pathed as LNER Electric Locomotives at 125mph

This is supposedly to run as a 7 car set.

Rather typically it's at a time I can't see it lol. Might have to rearrange some things!

 

[800001]

Rather typically it's at a time I can't see it lol. Might have to rearrange some things!

I’ve had it confirmed from a LNER source that this is happening.

 

[Halish Railway]

Is there any particular operational reason for reducing the IC225s to seven coaches aside from faster acceleration, spare parts and putting less strain on the Class 91s?

 

[hexagon789]

Is there any particular operational reason for reducing the IC225s to seven coaches aside from faster acceleration, spare parts and putting less strain on the Class 91s?

It may be for acceleration, as I recall bak when VTEC were going to retain some IC225s for the Edinburgh fasts (on a new timetable and calling pattern), they were to lose a TO and PO to reduce them to 7-coaches + DVT to give similar performance to an Azuma on electric.

Is it possible that when the accelerated timetable comes in next December that the remaining 225 sets will have two vehicles removed so as to be able to keep the tighter timings, hence this set being reduced?

 

[800Travel]

I’ve had it confirmed from a LNER source that this is happening.

I shall make an effort to be there then haha. Very much hoping they enter passenger operation again up North!

 

[dodecahedron67]

I have been told that this is (sadly?) not a precursor to IC225s returning to Newcastle, but instead some 91s have been fitted with some sort of OHLE testing equipment assessing ‘tension and forces in the OHLE’ whatever that means.

This is a one off run assessing the OHLE York - Newcastle apparently

 

[yorkie]

I shall make an effort to be there then haha. Very much hoping they enter passenger operation again up North!

They are not going to be entering passenger service north of York:

No plans for this as far as I understand. YRK - NCL shuttles formed off 2x 5 car 80x from Doncaster Carr & Heaton

And the reason for this test train is detailed in post #20. Unfortunately @AaronHannaway's post didn't make this clear, so I hope it didn't get anyone's hopes up!

If anyone is making a journey between Newcastle & London, and wants to travel on a 225 south of York, our booking site does have advanced options which can force a change at York or Doncaster, and force a specified amount of waiting time and/or calling points to generate the desired itinerary. Before booking, www.fastjp.com can be used to experiment with the required advanced settings to generate the desired itinerary.

 

[xotGD]

They are not going to be entering passenger service north of York:

And the reason for this test train is detailed in post #20. Unfortunately @AaronHannaway's post didn't make this clear, so I hope it didn't get anyone's hopes up!

If anyone is making a journey between Newcastle & London, and wants to travel on a 225 south of York, our booking site does have advanced options which can force a change at York or Doncaster, and force a specified amount of waiting time and/or calling points to generate the desired itinerary. Before booking, www.fastjp.com can be used to experiment with the required advanced settings to generate the desired itinerary.

Could they also specify Leeds as a "via" point?

 

[yorkie]

Could they also specify Leeds as a "via" point?

Absolutely! It is a permitted route on a through ticket for most journeys (and if it wasn't, we would identify a suitable combination of tickets), although it is a slower journey via Leeds, it does give a lot more journey opportunities as there are only two per day each way between York and London (and half of them at hours that would be of no use for travel north of York!)

You can also specify extra time at Leeds, to enable plenty of time to make the connection, to safeguard against potential delays!

If anyone is wondering, the main reason why 225s do not go north of York/Leeds is because the crews that are based in Newcastle (and further north, obviously!) do not sign them.

 

[fgwrich]

I have been told that this is (sadly?) not a precursor to IC225s returning to Newcastle, but instead some 91s have been fitted with some sort of OHLE testing equipment assessing ‘tension and forces in the OHLE’ whatever that means.

This is a one off run assessing the OHLE York - Newcastle apparently

Spot on, OHLE testing. Not for any future passenger services.

 

[DanNCL]

An LNER driver told me back in March that "91s will start running up to Newcastle in 7 car formations"

This is incorrect. That will not be happening.

Tuesday is the day!

5G90 Neville Hill - Newcastle, arriving around 1300

5G91 13xx Newcastle - Neville Hill

Both pathed as LNER Electric Locomotives at 125mph

Planned to be at Newcastle (P4) from 1310 to 1320.

 

[43096]

Tuesday is the day!

5G90 Neville Hill - Newcastle, arriving around 1300

5G91 13xx Newcastle - Neville Hill

Both pathed as LNER Electric Locomotives at 125mph

5G90 0925 Neville Hill-Newcastle: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:N49082/2024-12-17/detailed
5G91 1320 Newcastle-Neville Hill: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:N49081/2024-12-17/detailed

 

[800001]

5G90 0925 Neville Hill-Newcastle: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:N49082/2024-12-17/detailed
5G91 1320 Newcastle-Neville Hill: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:N49081/2024-12-17/detailed

91127 + NL17 is doing the honours.

 

[DanNCL]

Departed Neville Hill at 0935 with 91127+NL17 as expected.

 

[Kite159]

And is heading south as I've just passed it in the Durham area.

 

[Indigo Soup]

Given that IC225s spent 30-odd years running from Edinburgh, why would they need test runs if they were to operate from Newcastle? Surely the performance is still well understood, and the infrastructure can't have changed that dramatically in the last three or four years?